Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  72

  20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don’t understand how jehovah’s witnesses can rightly claim:.

  that less than 150,000 faithful christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.

  unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.. .

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Wonderment

  Great idea!

  My problem is time. I am working on my second book, "Good News For Jehovah’s Witnesses ".

  But perhaps someone would take up that challenge if it has not already been done.
• 
  162

  A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

  and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

  in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Re: Luke 12:32

  "Axiomatically does because only Christians are saved based on the ransom and nobody else. However Jesus refers to Christians with the heavenly hope as a little flock. Little flock compared to what?"

  The little flock refers to the apostles and first believers, of whom it was literally true.
  

  You have assumed a comparison that is not in the text.
  

  Moreover you have added to the Bible an imaginary group of Christians who are not justified, not in the New Covenant, bereft of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the heavenly hope.
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  2

  The End of the (Jewish) World

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it really wasn't the end of the jewish world in70 ce, when the romans laid siege to jerusalem.

  jewish thought, since it had developed a philosophical (i.e.

  fictional) foundation, survived until today.

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  Vanderhoven7

  It really wasn't the END of the Jewish World in70 CE

  Well it certainly spelled the end of the Jewish system of things when their temple was destroyed and their priesthood records lost, their sacrificial system ended.
  

  Yoni Friedman writes:

  How did the practice of Judaism change following the destruction of the second temple in 70 AD?

  1. All commandments pertaining to the temple and the proper ways to worship G-d via the temple became irrelevant, of course.

  2. Many additional prayers were added in order to replace the sacrificial offerings that were regularly performed at the temple. The synagogues became the central places of worship instead of the temple, and the Rabbis became the sole representatives of the Jewish people once most of the tasks given to the priests ('kohanim') became irrelevant.

  3. Much more emphasis was placed on the study of Torah (=the Old Testament) as well as the Oral Law presented in the Mishna and Talmud, and became the most important religious act in Jewish practice.
  An excellent source: After the Destruction of the Second Temple.
• 
  72

  20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don’t understand how jehovah’s witnesses can rightly claim:.

  that less than 150,000 faithful christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.

  unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Well said UTR,
• 
  72

  20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don’t understand how jehovah’s witnesses can rightly claim:.

  that less than 150,000 faithful christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.

  unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  I don’t understand how Jehovah’s Witnesses can rightly claim:

  1. that less than 150,000 faithful Christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.

  2. unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.

  3. unique direction from Jehovah...when JW lives have been endangered and lost due to medical prohibitions (vaccinations, organ transplants) which are no longer applied.

  4. that the innumerable Great Crowd are only Jehovah's Witnesses....when there are only 8.5 million JWs worldwide; a number we can all count.

  5. that non-JWs who die just before the tribulation begins will be granted a resurrection and given a chance to gain eternal life .... whereas if those same people are still around months later, will be eternally destroyed at Armageddon. Everything depends on when you die.

  6. that the 1914 generation will not pass away when babies born in 1914 are 108 years old today? (How long is a generation in the gospels?)

  7. that the Daniel 4 prophecy of 2,520 prophetic 360 day years magically become 2,520 solar 365.25 day years to reach the magic year of 1914.

  8. that the "7 trumpets of Revelation chapters 8 - 11" were 7 talks given at Bible Student conventions in the 1920s.

  9. that the religion of JWs is biblical...when its foundations are completely based on invisible speculative events involving names dates and places not found in scripture.

  10. that they know the date of the second advent of Christ when Jesus said no man knows the timing; JWs have been trying to prove him a liar for over 100 years.

  11. that one need not be born again to be a Christian when Jesus said, you must be born again to see or be part of the kingdom of God.

  12. that there are Christians living today to whom Jesus' command to partake of the emblems of His death does not apply.

  13. that it is wrong to make oaths of allegiance in support of one's country and its political values yet they unhesitatingly sign oaths of allegiance to get their US passports.

  14. that the wild beast of Revelation is the United Nations...yet at the same time join and supports the UN for close to 10 years (until 2001) as an NGO.

  15. that they care about children who are sexually abused by members, yet do nothing to protect them from these pedophiles unless there are two or more witnesses to the abuse.

  16. that they care about justice for pedophiles while encouraging parents of abused children not to report matters to police unless required by law...showing they are more interested in protecting the image of the organization.

  17. that they have been chosen and directed by God and must be believed even though they are fallible and have a long history of mistakes and flip-flops on doctrines.

  18. that in 1919 certain men were chosen and appointed by Christ in Brooklyn New York to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave spoken about in Matthew 24.

  19. that ones salvation is tied to submission to 8 men in Warwick New York.

  20. that the Bible bans the medical use of blood plasma and white blood cells.

      
      

      Please feel free to add to this list

      Please feel free to help me understand any of the 20 claims listed above,
• 
  162

  A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

  and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

  in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  @ Fisherman

  Compare Rev 5:10 with Luke 12:32. Obviously heaven will be ruling over Christians on earth since Christ is the only way and the only salvation.

  Neither Rev 5:10 or Luke 12:32. say anything about Christians who are unjustified, not in the New Covenant, and bereft of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the heavenly hope.

  I have shown you clear scriptures that counter such assumptions.

  Try again
• 
  162

  A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

  and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

  in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  The scriptures provided are the rebuttal to Watchtower salvation.

  What I don't see in scripture is

  Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and associate with an organization with headquarters in New York and work hard for your gift of salvation.
• 
  162

  A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

  and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

  in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  @Fisherman

  Perhaps to your satisfaction. A gift does not require work. Gifts are received freely out of the grace of the giver.

  As many as received Jesus became sons of God. John 1:12. But of course this verse does not apply to 8 million Jehovah's Witness orphans who must work for 1000 years in the hope that they finally will be adopted by a prospective Father.

  Watchtower salvation is not biblical salvation. It's man-made salvation promised by men to those who find the right organization, believe in and follow the directions of its leaders and serve the organization to perhaps qualify to survive Armageddon.

  More on topic, as I see it, the 1914 generation, those who actually saw the events of 1914 and understood them are long dead.
• 
  162

  A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

  and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

  in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  <<But ultimately salvation is a free gift of God that we can never merit>>

  If that's the case, why are you "working hard for the reward of eternal life"? https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1972602#

  Salvation And Its Benefits Are Gifts Of God

  SALVATION A GIFT

  Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

  JUSTIFICATION A GIFT

  Romans 3:22b-25a… for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.

  Roman's 5:18 Therefore by the offense of one judgment cam upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

  ADOPTIVE SONSHIP A GIFT

  John_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

  Romans 8:15-17 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (also Galatians 3:26)

  Galatians 4:4-6 4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

  ETERNAL LIFE A GIFT

  Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

  1John_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

  John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

  FORGIVENESS A GIFT

  Romans_5:18 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.

  Ephesians 1:7 “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.”

  Eph. 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

  RIGHTEOUSNESS A GIFT

  Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

  Romans 4:23-25 Now it was not written for his (Abraham's) sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

  HOLY SPIRIT A GIFT

  Acts 2:38-39 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

  Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.

  Fisherman, have you received the gift of: salvation, justification, forgiveness, righteousness, sonship, Holy Spirit, and eternal life? These are immediate benefits belonging to every Christian alive today. Real Christians are not working for; they are working because of God's unmerited favor.

  1Jn_5:11,13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son....13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

  But it seems that your organization does not want you to believe the Bible.

  "It is to the Spirit anointed Christians who will rule in that kingdom that most of the Christian-Greek scriptures is directed, including the promise of everlasting life. WT, June 15, 1974

  Instead they will grant you eternal life if you associate with their organization and work hard for that reward.

  "Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part ofit." (Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12 )

  
  
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  162

  A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

  and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

  in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Why not provide quotations rather than just references to demonstrate that your verses actually confirm WT conclusions.