Posts by Vanderhoven7

34

“Heaven and Earth will pass away but my words will by no means pass away.”

by Fisherman in

“this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.

heaven and earth will pass away but my words will by no means pass away.”.

the destruction of jerusalem is insignificant in the large scheme of things.

Vanderhoven7

"This generation" in all 4 gospels invariably refers to Christ's contemporaries.

There is no support for the WTS current application let alone the 1914 overlapping generation manufactured without precedence.

36

Are YOU saved?

by JW Answers in

sadly today, many churches and religious organisations teach their followers that they are saved based on something the bible does not record.

many people are following a lie, and are heading to a lost eternity and do not know it.. my question here is... are you saved?

it's vitally important to know!.

Vanderhoven7

According to Jehovah's Witnesses teachings, who will be saved?

Helge Kåre Fauskanger writes:

Well, it’s a bit … complicated.

Ultimately, just who will be “saved” and gain eternal life supposedly normally won’t be decided before some point more than 1,000 years into the future! Yes, CE 3020 at the very earliest. Probably even later.

In Watchtower teachings, the current world order is about to be wiped out in Armageddon, God’s great war, and replaced by an earthly paradise where people will be frolicking with pandas and pet lions/tigers for a full millennium. Like this:

But — simply getting to live in the earthly paradise isn’t enough to secure permanent “salvation”, just a sort of necessary Step One. In Paradise, people will apparently finally learn the 100 % correct interpretation of the Bible (currently the Witnesses are still refining their doctrine after 140 years, so this is clearly a complicated matter), and the Paradisians will be raised to human perfection, physically and mentally.

But just reaching perfection isn’t the ultimate salvation, either. You must also make it through Step Two at the end of the 1,000-year program. Satan, who has been bound in the meantime, will be released by God and allowed to tempt the entire human race as it then exists to rebel against God. But this is really God’s way of weeding out the unworthy ones, who will then be eradicated forever, along with Satan himself. (Apparently Satan should stall his own execution by refusing to tempt anyone when he is released, thus derailing God’s plan, but the infinitely cunning Prince of Evil will somehow be too dumb to realize this. Doesn’t he read Watchtower literature, where everything is predicted in plain words, more than 1K years in advance?)

If you got through this Step Two alive, you are as “saved” as you will ever be in this religion, and you can potentially live on forever. (But of course, God will still eradicate you from the universe at once if you ever misbehave according to his standards, so don’t get any clever ideas.)

However, to even get to Step One you must first make it into the coming earthly paradise itself. Here there are essentially two options.

Be dead (in time). This is by far the easiest option. Watchtower teaches that once someone dies, their death pays for their sins and they are normally in line for resurrection on the paradise earth. There are some exceptions who just stay dead forever, such as those who have “sinned against the holy spirit”, but nobody seems quite certain what that even means, so don’t worry about it. Witnesses typically assure people that they can meet their loved dead ones again in Paradise, the doorknockers never inquring about the moral status of these dead individuals, much less about their interest (or likely lack of such) in the Watchtower message. If you are simply dead before God brings Armageddon to wipe out this world order and make room for the ensuing paradise, you can pretty much count on a resurrection into said paradise (with no conscious existence in the meantime). Deliberate suicide may be a risky strategy, since Jehovah doesn’t like that, but unhealthy living typically shouldn’t be a problem. Smoke, drink, do hard drugs, enjoy your colesterol, don’t let the red light bother you — you’ll wake up in paradise before you know it! .
Be a Jehovah’s Witness (in good standing and with no serious hidden sins). This is the second, and far more demanding option if you want to make it through Armageddon into paradise alive. You must obey an elaborate set of rules that would make the Pharisees proud, hawk Watchtower literature, live by Puritan morals and promptly revise your religious views whenever the Watchtower Governing Body think it will be fun to tinker with the doctrines again. Salvationwise, this strategy has the perk that you may attain eternal life without ever dying at all, but since in this religion death is just unconsciousness, skipping Armageddon in favor of a dirt nap may arguably be the better scenario. If you are alive and a Jehovah’s Witness when Armageddon strikes, you are supposed to stand there cheering and happy as the world burns around you, God wiping out some seven billion people for … not being Jehovah’s Witnesses, essentially. And they won’t ever get a resurrection, either! Too bad they didn’t step in front of a bus in time.

The world is burning and billions are dying. YAY! The happiest day of our lives!

This, more or less, is how you get saved, Watchtower fashion.

36

Are YOU saved?

by JW Answers in

sadly today, many churches and religious organisations teach their followers that they are saved based on something the bible does not record.

many people are following a lie, and are heading to a lost eternity and do not know it.. my question here is... are you saved?

it's vitally important to know!.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Wozza,

Those that hear the voice of Christ belong to Him. He knows those who are His and those who are not. Those who profess Christ are encouraged to examine themselves II Cor.13:5 The best description I know of one who is saved by Jesus Christ is found in the Beatitudes. Matthew 5:3-12 It is the person who realizes his abject spiritual poverty; weeps over it, hungers and thirsts for the righteousness of Christ and is willing to share the gospel of Christ even if persecuted for doing so. The first step (verse 3) leads to all the others triggering the need to rely on the holiness of another. If we are not His, our prayer should be, "Lead me to Calvary"

Jesus said, that no one who comes to Him will be cast out. He went to the cross to save the lost and to deliver them from the powers of darkness. He is altogether wonderful and beautiful beyond description. There is no one on this planet that will be able to say truthfully to Jesus on that day, "I came to you sincerely Jesus and you rejected me." The universe that He created would implode if that were to happen. "Whosoever will, may come and take of the water of life freely." Rev.22:17

20

What are the odds that Armageddon is soooo close?

by Vanderhoven7 in

well judging from past prophetic pronouncements....go figure.

"surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of god that the lord jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" watchtower 1924 jan 1 p.5).

"the prophecy of the bible, fully supported by the physical facts in fulfillment thereof, shows that the second coming of christ dates from the fall of the year 1914.

Vanderhoven7

Actually DoC, in this case at least, someone else did the research. I'm happy to pass it on to others who might find it useful in ministry to Watchtower Witnesses.

36

Are YOU saved?

by JW Answers in

sadly today, many churches and religious organisations teach their followers that they are saved based on something the bible does not record.

many people are following a lie, and are heading to a lost eternity and do not know it.. my question here is... are you saved?

it's vitally important to know!.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jehalapeno,

I agree that if there is no God, sin does not exist...because sin is a transgression against divine law.

36

Are YOU saved?

by JW Answers in

sadly today, many churches and religious organisations teach their followers that they are saved based on something the bible does not record.

many people are following a lie, and are heading to a lost eternity and do not know it.. my question here is... are you saved?

it's vitally important to know!.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Diogenesister,

Wow! Sounds like you were living in Romans chapter 7. Hope you are living in Romans 8 today.

There is therefore NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1 As we yield to the Holy Spirit we are filled with joy and peace that passes understanding.

We know that in our flesh there lives no good thing, and that is why we need to die to the flesh and be filled with His Spirit.

We are encouraged to be filled with the Spirit, speaking to ourselves in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs making melody in our hearts unto the Lord who has forgiven us from all sin and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

We are new creations in Christ, old things have passed away and all things have become new.

We rejoice, because we are made acceptable in the beloved. No need to flail ourselves. Jesus took our flailings and by His stripes we are healed.

In Christ, that is if we belong to Christ, all of our sins, past, present and future are under the blood.

How else could we bear fruit? The joy of the Lord is our strength.

Jesus, the Truth sets us free from the law of sin and death.

20

What are the odds that Armageddon is soooo close?

by Vanderhoven7 in

well judging from past prophetic pronouncements....go figure.

"surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of god that the lord jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" watchtower 1924 jan 1 p.5).

"the prophecy of the bible, fully supported by the physical facts in fulfillment thereof, shows that the second coming of christ dates from the fall of the year 1914.

Vanderhoven7

Well judging from past prophetic pronouncements....go figure

"Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" Watchtower 1924 Jan 1 p.5)

"The prophecy of the Bible, fully supported by the physical facts in fulfillment thereof, shows that the second coming of Christ dates from the fall of the year 1914." What is Truth? (1932) p.48

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished near the end of A.D. 1915. .

"Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of ‘Christianity.’" p.485

"Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"." Awake! 1966 Oct 8 pp.19-20

"the danger of sudden death is staring you in the face. ... That is exactly the case with the warning that we speak of here, and there are reasons why it can truly be said to be the most urgent warning ever given. ... It is to come within the generation that has already seen two world wars and it is only a few short years ahead of us." Watchtower 1967 Apr 15 pp.243-244

"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfillment." Watchtower 1968 May 1 p.272

"The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.13

"Today there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus' prophecy will shortly have a major fulfilment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time." Awake! 1974 Nov 8 p.11

"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15

"And if the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century, which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War I generation." Watchtower 1980 Oct 15 p.31

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216

"Some of that "generation" could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that "the end" is much closer than that!" Watchtower 1984 Mar 1 pp.18-19

"He was laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century". Watchtower 1989 Jan 1 p.12.

Please add more quotations.

EDIT Why did the WTBTS change the masthead of the Awake Magazine in 1995?

From 1982 - 1995 it stated:

"Most importantly, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new order before the generation that saw the events of 1914 C.E. passes away."

When it became obvious that this was false because that generation HAD all but passed away, it was changed in Nov 1995 to read:

"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

36

Are YOU saved?

by JW Answers in

sadly today, many churches and religious organisations teach their followers that they are saved based on something the bible does not record.

many people are following a lie, and are heading to a lost eternity and do not know it.. my question here is... are you saved?

it's vitally important to know!.

Vanderhoven7

Hi TBK

You make salvation sound so easy.

The sanctification process is usually quite painful.

It starts with repentance.

And that repentance is ongoing death to self repentance.

The cross is an invitation to die....to yield to the indwelling Holy Spirit and let Him transform us into Christ's image marred by the fall.

As Christians we need to continually judge ourselves against the scriptures. If we fail to judge ourselves God will judge us...because we are His children.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32 kjv

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Easy believism has no place in the life of a Christian. We are constantly on death row. How else would we be crowned?

36

Are YOU saved?

by JW Answers in

sadly today, many churches and religious organisations teach their followers that they are saved based on something the bible does not record.

many people are following a lie, and are heading to a lost eternity and do not know it.. my question here is... are you saved?

it's vitally important to know!.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Wozza,

I don't like to add to the word of God but I will share my personal views which i believe correspond to the scriptures.

It is clear from the Bible that there is no other name given unto mankind whereby we may be saved, i.e. justified.

All non-Christians will be raised from the dead in the second resurrection for judgment. Judgment with God is not just sentencing. Judgment begins with the house of God. So the church is being judged in this life; the world in the next. Non-Christians will be raised to judgment followed by punishment administered based both on what they knew and what they did in their lives.

I believe the power of the cross extends beyond the grave and that many sins even against the Son of God will be forgiven...with the exception of the sin against the Holy Spirit for which there is no forgiveness either in this age or the age to come.

This is where I see the millennial reign of Christ fits in. All faithful Christians will be granted to rule with Christ over the nations with a disciplinary rod of iron. When the thousand years is ended a final judgment will be rendered, the wicked destroyed eternally and the new heaven and new earth established, where death and suffering are a thing of the past.

Hope this helps.

Edit: that Christians are being judged and disciplined in this life is confirmed in

1 Corinthians 11:32 KJV — But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

36

Are YOU saved?

by JW Answers in

sadly today, many churches and religious organisations teach their followers that they are saved based on something the bible does not record.

many people are following a lie, and are heading to a lost eternity and do not know it.. my question here is... are you saved?

it's vitally important to know!.

Vanderhoven7

And the answer should be:

Saved from sins penalty now, sins power now and ultimately sins presence, i.e., justification, sanctification and finally glorification at the coming of the Lord.