Anthony Moriss nervous breakdowns and Bethel stress!

by Witness 007 in

so karl klien of the governing body gave his life story in the watchtower talking about his stress, nervous breakdowns and pressure to take the lead.

it was aweful.

maybe anthony had the same problem..

Vanderhoven7

Yes, I'm guessing he had a mental breakdown. The booze wasn't as effective anymore masking the cognitive dissonance. Perhaps because he was forced to detox at the threat of disfellowship.

1

untitled

by blondie in

jw
friends

so does the wts picture moses as a mediator for all or just anointed jws?.

than moses--jesus christ.

and one mediator between god and men, a man, christ jesus.

Vanderhoven7

I enjoyed Blondie's presentation about Jesus' accomplishments since 1914.

Aaron Valley writes:

Jehovah's Witnesses, what has Jesus been doing since 1914?

Jesus has accomplished many things since he became King in 1914. And he will accomplish much more after he removes the wickedness from this earth. Let's consider seven things Jesus will do as King.

(1) The first thing Jesus did after his enthronement was to cleansed the heaven's of it's wicked elements.

And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon… So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan… and his angels were hurled down with him. (Re 12:7–9)

Satan and his wicked angels were removed from heaven and banished to earth.

After the heavens were cleansed (2) Jesus then resurrect his anointed followers to heaven.

because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. (1 Th 4:16)

This is the first resurrection. (Re 20:6) After rising these anointed followers of Christ would sit on thrones with Jesus (Mt 19:28) assisting him with all the things that Jehovah had assigned him to do.

You will notice that after Satan was cast to earth he “went off to wage war with the remaining ones” (Re 12:17) of God's anointed ones on earth that had not yet been resurrected to heaven.

(3) Jesus next guided these remaining ones toward pure worship and established an earthly organization that would teach pure worship to those all over the earth. (Mt 24:45–47)

Once pure worship was establish in 1931, (4) Jesus’ next assignment was to organize a worldwide preaching work that would need to be completed before God's day of judgment.

And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Mt 24:14)

After the preaching work is complete, (5) Jesus must now create a system of protection for God's people during the great tribulation (Re 7:14) and when the final war of Armageddon comes.

So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment, (1 Pet 2:9)
You will not need to fight this battle. Take your position, stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah in your behalf. (2 Ch 20:17)

At some point before Armegeddon comes the first resurrection will be complete when the “remaining ones” on earth are brought to heaven.

Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. (1 Th 4:17)

(6) Jesus is also preparing for the second resurrection that will take place after Armegeddon is over.

And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. (Ac 24:15)

And finally (7) Jesus will also have a teaching program in place for these ones who are resurrected. Every person must know that Jehovah is the One true God and Sovereign ruler of the universe. They must also learn that Jesus is our King and Savior.

‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I will write them. And I will become their God, and they will become my people. “‘And they will no longer teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: “Know Jehovah!” For they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them. (Heb 8:10, 11)

Upon being brought back to life these resurrected ones will need to learn who Jehovah is (Ez 36:23–28), that Jesus is the only means of salvation (Ac 4:12), and the requirements of being a Christian (Jo 17:3, 8, 17, 26).

6

Blood question re: sample for testing

by carla in

why can jw's give blood samples for testing in a medical setting?

i was with someone once (non jw related) who was getting multiple tests done and they must have taken a good pint all together in separate vials.

how do jw's square this with their blood policies?

Vanderhoven7

Yes, but it is stored for a time so it can be tested... but isn't that against Jehovah of the Watchtower's will? And how can using blood products derived from immorally stored blood be acceptable?

23

How did it come to this?

by New day in

i am now in my early 60’s.

i was baptized in 1980. i served as a ministerial servant and an elder.

i gave my all for many years but about eight years ago i started to question many things.

Vanderhoven7

Sad to hear that you spent over 30 years serving an unworthy religious organization. Glad you came to realize the truth about "the truth" about 8 years ago... just about the time you discovered this forum. And thank God you have been able to protect your family from similar discouragement and pain.

That's what my Dad did for me as well.

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Vanderhoven7

607 BCE is inaccurate according to ....

"Archaeological evidence that exists to show that the destruction of Jerusalem was in 587 B.C. is the same evidence that the Society uses to prove 539 B.C. was the destruction of Babylon.

Furthermore, the claim that 587 conflicts with Bible prophecy is not a relevant argument, as there are historically acceptable ways to reconcile the prophecy, as shown later.

Not surprisingly, since the Watchtower relies on historical evidence to prove when Babylon fell, information presented in the Watchtower's own journals can be used to show that 607 B.C. is wrong.

Simple calculation

Following is a simple calculation of when Jerusalem fell, taken solely from Watchtower literature. In viewing the calculation remember that everything goes backwards when calculating years B.C.

Babylon fell	"Babylon fell in 539 B.C." Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184	539 B.C.
Plus Nabonidus	"On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some seventeen years(556-539 B.C.E.)." Aid to Bible Understanding - Nabonidus p.1195	17 years
Plus Labashi-Marduk	"Labashi-Marduk ... was a vicious boy, and within nine months he had his throat cut by an assassin." Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184	1 year
Plus Neriglissar	Neriglissar ... reigned four years Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184	4 years
Plus Evil-Merodach	"After reigning but two years King Evil-Merodach was murdered" Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184	2 years
Plus Nebuchadnezzar	"Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years" Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.480	43 years
Equals start of Nebuchadnezzar's reign	Calculated by adding above figures	606 B.C.
Minus Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year	2 Kings 25:8-9 "And in the ... nineteenth year of King Neb·u·chad·nez´zar ... the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah"	19th year
Date for Destruction	Therefore calculated as:	587 B.C.

75

Is the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses REALLY the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matt. 24:45-47?

by Roger Kirkpatrick in

thesis: when someone who is given a responsibility mistakes that responsibility for authority, bullying is very likely to occur.. jesus spoke an illustration recorded at matthew 24: 45-51 which well illustrates this thesis.. jesus asked, “who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over all his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.

truly i say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

Vanderhoven7

Here are a couple I found

JWs are not following the Bible; they are following men.

Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. 9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

Contradiction Anyone?

"Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" Watchtower 2009 Feb 15 p.27

"The plain truth is that we cannot say that we trust in Jehovah if we do not trust in his earthly representatives - those whom Jehovah trusts. Today Jehovah leads the earthly part of his organization by means of "the faithful and discreet slave." The "Watchtower 2022 Feb p.4

"There are many reasons to have complete trust in the slave class. First and foremost, Jesus has appointed them over all his precious "belongings." This is a clear indication that he has complete trust in them." Organized to Do Jehovah's Will (2005) p.18

The truth is that JW’s faith is in men for their salvation…not the Bible. You see the Bible has lost any corrective power for Jehovah's Witnesses. The 10 men in New York can correct their understanding of what the Bible teaches…but the Bible cannot correct them contrary to what these men teach.

75

Is the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses REALLY the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matt. 24:45-47?

by Roger Kirkpatrick in

thesis: when someone who is given a responsibility mistakes that responsibility for authority, bullying is very likely to occur.. jesus spoke an illustration recorded at matthew 24: 45-51 which well illustrates this thesis.. jesus asked, “who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over all his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.

truly i say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

Vanderhoven7

I'm looking for a recent WT quotation that says

Trust in the FS is essential to Salvation

And another that says if we don't trust the slave we are not trusting Jehovah

Anyone???

18

Does Jehovah have a visible organization?

by Vanderhoven7 in

why do jehovah’s witnesses say they are god’s organization so matter of factly as though such an audacious claim is an undisputable fact?

here is how one person sees this claim.. "the entire jehovah’s witness religion is founded on unsubstantiated hubristic claims which are continually repeated until they are assumed by adherents to be a proven fact.. never is this more evident than when the beliefs of a jehovah’s witness are successfully challenged.

the more compelling the evidence against them, the more they resort to repeating their convictions with a sense of insistence, as if they are chanting a mantra.. confirmation bias is prevalent in all religious ideologies, but particularly with jehovah’s witnesses.

Vanderhoven7

@LongHairGal

Yes, in 1967 there was not enough time left in this old system to develop a career. I graduated from high-school in 1968. A fellow graduate told me there would not be time to go to university and that I would be destroyed if I did not become a JW by 1975. I told him he would wake up in 1976 with egg all over his face.

18

Does Jehovah have a visible organization?

by Vanderhoven7 in

why do jehovah’s witnesses say they are god’s organization so matter of factly as though such an audacious claim is an undisputable fact?

here is how one person sees this claim.. "the entire jehovah’s witness religion is founded on unsubstantiated hubristic claims which are continually repeated until they are assumed by adherents to be a proven fact.. never is this more evident than when the beliefs of a jehovah’s witness are successfully challenged.

the more compelling the evidence against them, the more they resort to repeating their convictions with a sense of insistence, as if they are chanting a mantra.. confirmation bias is prevalent in all religious ideologies, but particularly with jehovah’s witnesses.

Vanderhoven7

@ Watcher

Does Jehovah need and use only one organization to feed and house the poor and distressed?

US Branch of Jehovah’s Witnesses provides little support to ”Distressed Households”

by Jason Wynne Feb 16

World Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses, Warwick, New York The United States Branch of Jehovah's Witnesses has released a 7-page document to elders in the U.S. entitled, Resources for Distressed Households. Instead of providing practical support to members in need, they provide links to government aid agencies and other charities to find that support.

18

Does Jehovah have a visible organization?

by Vanderhoven7 in

why do jehovah’s witnesses say they are god’s organization so matter of factly as though such an audacious claim is an undisputable fact?

here is how one person sees this claim.. "the entire jehovah’s witness religion is founded on unsubstantiated hubristic claims which are continually repeated until they are assumed by adherents to be a proven fact.. never is this more evident than when the beliefs of a jehovah’s witness are successfully challenged.

the more compelling the evidence against them, the more they resort to repeating their convictions with a sense of insistence, as if they are chanting a mantra.. confirmation bias is prevalent in all religious ideologies, but particularly with jehovah’s witnesses.

Vanderhoven7

Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say they are God’s organization so matter of factly as though such an audacious claim is an undisputable fact?

Here is how one person sees this claim.

"The entire Jehovah’s Witness religion is founded on unsubstantiated hubristic claims which are continually repeated until they are assumed by adherents to be a proven fact.

Never is this more evident than when the beliefs of a Jehovah’s Witness are successfully challenged. The more compelling the evidence against them, the more they resort to repeating their convictions with a sense of insistence, as if they are chanting a mantra.

Confirmation bias is prevalent in all religious ideologies, but particularly with Jehovah’s Witnesses. The reason for this is that their evangelical work puts them in contact with many rival belief systems.

In order to overcome challenges to their beliefs and to prevent any doubts creeping in, Jehovah’s Witnesses have to retreat to their echo chamber to bolster their faith.

By repeatedly discussing their beliefs with fellow believers, they convince themselves that what they teach is the only ‘truth’. As well as supporting their own need for certainty, they in turn are helping to reinforce the delusions of other members.

There is a very interesting logical fallacy which highlights this method of confirmation which Jehovah’s Witnesses use, called ‘proof by repeated assertion’.

Here is a brief description:-

“Proof by repeated assertion is an informal fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction and refutation. The proposition can sometimes be repeated until any challenges or opposition ceases, letting the proponent assert it as fact, and solely due to a lack of challengers. In other cases, it’s repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority fallacy.

…In its extreme form, it can also be a form of brainwashing.”

At their meetings, Jehovah’s Witnesses are trained by role playing, acting out the arguments they regularly encounter in their ministry. However, they only ever consider the scenarios which present the softest resistance to their beliefs.

By constantly ‘overcoming’ the more easy arguments during practice sessions, Jehovah’s Witnesses are lulled into a false sense of security, believing that they have watertight answers to all the questions and objections they can expect to encounter in their ministry.

However, in real life JWs are occasionally confronted with much more profound and difficult challenges to their faith which they have not previously encountered. They invariably refrain from directly arguing or debating on these topics, but instead use deflection tactics such as referring the questioner to their website, and then they quickly retreat.

Later, when no longer under direct pressure, JWs are likely to replay the difficult challenge over in their mind. If there are no set answers in the Watchtower literature, they are compelled to fabricate a refutation themselves, perhaps by looking for relevant bible verses. The motive for this is often more to reassure themselves than to answer the challenger.

But many times there is no valid refutation. A frequent recourse if they can't find a gratifying way to refute the objection to their religion, is to vilify the character of the challenger, as a means to negate the challenge.

They are then compelled to use flawed logic to find a ‘solution’ to the challenge. Once they have an idea, they cling to it and repeat it, however false or illogical it is, until it becomes an ‘established’ counter argument (at least in their minds).

A classic, often repeated example is as follows. After pointing out a flaw in the Organisation they will reply by saying:-

“Show me an alternative religion that has more truth than ours”.

If their adversary fails or declines to suggest an appropriate alternative religion, the JW erroneously concludes that this is decisive evidence that theirs is the true religion by default.

Many people who have had encounters with Jehovah’s Witnesses will recognise this trait. Very often, when Jehovah’s Witness are confronted with contrary evidence, they simply repeat an invalid point over and over, even though they have been presented with well-founded objections or incontrovertible evidence.

After several such encounters, Jehovah’s Witnesses begin to have misplaced confidence in their false reasoning, which leads them to the absurd conclusion that their religion is the only one God is backing.

The Watchtower literature is also a factor which builds confidence in JWs that their religion is God’s organisation. The articles repeatedly make the hubristic claim that they are God’s ‘channel’, that God is using the ‘Faithful Slave’ to convey his message, etc.

Despite the lack of sufficient evidence, the constant repetition of these claims forms a confirmation bias in the minds of the followers, and these invalid assumptions become an established fact.

One only has to read the posts of many JWs on Quora to see this process in motion. There are countless answers from JW apologists in which they claim to be God’s people.

Remaining in an environment where this predominant attitude is constantly played out, has convinced millions of followers that their religion is God’s organisation, even though they lack sufficient evidence to back up this baseless claim."

Giles Gray

Vanderhoven7

Posts by Vanderhoven7

Simple calculation