Posts by Vanderhoven7

17

Watchtower Says Their Writings Are Part of the Bible and Are Essential For Salvation

by Sea Breeze in

hard to believe, but it's true:watchtower december 15, 2008, pg.

28 – “our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of christian teachings that has become part of the bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.this is the same position of the roman catholic church.

one of the pope’s titles is the vicar of christ.

Vanderhoven7

QUESTIONING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ABOUT HOW THE BIBLE IS VIEWED.

How important is truth to you?

If you didn't have the truth, would you want to know it?

1. How much faith do you have in the Bible? (complete?)

2. Do you view the scriptures the same way the apostles did? (II Tim.3:15, 16)

3. Do you believe your religion is clearly biblical?

4. Could someone studying the Bible alone come up with exactly what you believe?

5. Do you believe that someone who only has the Bible can read it and be saved?

6. What role does the Bible actually play in determining your religious beliefs?

7. Would you say that your faith is primarily in the Bible or is it primarily in your religious leaders (i.e.; those taking the lead) and their interpretations of the Bible?

8. Could there be a discrepancy between what your religion teaches and what the Bible teaches? Has there ever been?

9. Does new light or doctrinal modifications made by your religious leaders act as a corrective to change what you believe the Bible teaches?

10. Could the Bible ever act as a corrective to change your beliefs contrary to what your religions leaders teach?

11. If a person puts his complete trust in a Bible scholar, with an “if he says it, I believe it” attitude, would his faith ultimately be in the Bible or the scholar?

12. If you somehow lost faith in your religion's primary leadership, would you lose your faith in God and the Bible?

What do you think about the following quotations dealing with the relative value of the bible vs the publications?

“... not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years - if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the SCRIPTURE STUDIES with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures.” Watchtower: September 15, 1910, page 298

arrogant to value ones own books above Bible – no?

Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1981, p. 27).

WT values the organization input over the Bible's

WT 10/1/1967: "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind."

WT 1/15/1983: "Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God's organization? No, we cannot!"

76

Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

by Sea Breeze in

here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

.

Vanderhoven7

2¶Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: I Corinthians 1:2

30

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mental Health

by Vanderhoven7 in

this psychiatrist makes sense to me.. https://youtu.be/l5wcqc6m-gi.

Vanderhoven7

@Lee Marsh

Thank you for sharing your heart and experience.

42

Why did you leave the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i've never been a witness so i never left.

graeme hammond writes:.

for some years i’d had a growing irritation and disillusionment with the religion: i was getting tired of the pompousness, the arrogance and the control, i felt increasingly choked by their restrictions and i was drained by their demands on my time.

Vanderhoven7

@ Fisherman

“You’ve lost that lovely feeling, ohh ohh ohh, that lovely feeling.” —The (ex) Righteous Brothers

Great song btw.

Here is a girl who clearly did not lose her loving feeling.

https://m.facebook.com/nationalbiblebee/videos/memorize-the-bible-this-summer/166367996352487/

30

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mental Health

by Vanderhoven7 in

this psychiatrist makes sense to me.. https://youtu.be/l5wcqc6m-gi.

Vanderhoven7

I wonder how many JWs wander around thinking just about everyone else in the congregation is happy, so there is something wrong with me and not my religion.

30

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mental Health

by Vanderhoven7 in

this psychiatrist makes sense to me.. https://youtu.be/l5wcqc6m-gi.

Vanderhoven7

Do you agree with his conclusion that most Jehovah's Witnesses are unhappy and chronically depressed?

30

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mental Health

by Vanderhoven7 in

this psychiatrist makes sense to me.. https://youtu.be/l5wcqc6m-gi.

Vanderhoven7

This psychiatrist makes sense to me.

https://youtu.be/L5wCQc6m-GI

76

Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

by Sea Breeze in

here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

.

Vanderhoven7

Revelation 1:5

"... Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood"

22

Is there encouragement and hope for the disfellowshipped?

by Butterflyleia85 in

i am 24 years old i was disfellowshipped at 21 and reinstated last year january then committed a sin and disfellowshipped again five months later.. i don't think i realized what i got into.

i tried hard to fend for myself and get back in, the pressure got to me and i fell out again.

but since i understood what it entailed i fought hard to stay in.

Vanderhoven7

Mark Jones elaborates on the appeal process and how you can cause a bit of havoc for the elders in the process.

"You can appeal and it will be dealt with by a new committee of three elders.

Inform him that he may send a letter of appeal to the judicial committee within seven days if he feels a serious error in judgment has occurred. The judicial committee should neither encourage nor discourage him from doing so. - Elder’s secret guidebook Shepherd The Flock of God, Chapter 16, para. 26, p.141
The circuit overseer will select qualified elders to rehear the case. If possible, he will select brothers from a different congregation or congregations. Those selected should be impartial and should not be close relatives of or have a special relationship with any of the elders on the judicial committee or anyone else involved in the case. - Elder’s secret guidebook Shepherd The Flock of God, Chapter 17, para. 1, p.143

If they still decide to disfellowship you can appeal again and it goes above them to the Service Department - although they wont tell you that. That little bit of information is only in the elder’s secret guidebook.

The appeal committee should not initiate discussion of a further appeal. However, if the individual persists in believing a serious error in judgment has occurred, the appeal committee should in?form him that he may express his concern in a letter within sev?en days. If he indicates a desire to submit a letter of appeal, the announcement of disfellowshipping should be delayed. The ap?peal committee should submit to the Service Department a brief summary of the case, the judicial committee’s summary, and the individual’s letter. No announcement should be made until a re?ply is received from the Service Department. The body of elders should be updated on the results of the appeal hearing. - Elder’s secret guidebook Shepherd The Flock of God, Chapter 17, para. 9, p.145

If you’ve followed the above procedure, you should have by now delayed any disfellowshipping announcement by at least four weeks. In my opinion, its worth doing just to enjoy the satisfaction of giving them more work to do when they’re trying to get rid of you.

If the Service Department decides to disfellowship you anyway, you have a magic bullet:

Threaten legal action.

If there’s one thing the cult is afraid of, it’s lawyers and bad publicity. The elder’s secret guidebook tells them to immediatly stop proceedings and go running to their legal dept for advice.

IF THE ACCUSED THREATENS LEGAL ACTION
If the accused threatens legal action against the elders, the el?ders should suspend proceedings and promptly telephone the Le?gal Department.
If a member of the media or an attorney representing the accused contacts the elders, they should not give any information about the case or verify that there is a judicial committee. Rather, they should give the following explanation: “The spiritual and physi?cal welfare of Jehovah’s Witnesses is of paramount concern to the elders, who willingly provide spiritual assistance. The elders extend this spiritual assistance confidentially. This makes it eas?ier for those who seek the elders’ help to do so without worry?ing that what they say to the elders will be divulged later. Con?sequently, we do not comment on whether elders are currently or have formerly met to assist anyone in the congregation.” If there is a need to do so, the elders may obtain the inquirer’s name and phone number and inform him that their attorney will contact him. The elders should then promptly telephone the Legal Depart?ment.
If the authorities request confidential congregation records or ask that elders give testimony regarding confidential congrega?tion matters, the elders should promptly telephone the Legal De?partment. - Elder’s secret guidebook Shepherd The Flock of God, Chapter 15, para. 18–20, p.128, 129.

If, after all of this, they still decide to disfellowship you, instruct your lawyer that you intend to sue THE ELDERS (not the org) if any announcment is made as this is likely to have damaging effects to your mental health.

This is where it gets fun. Sue the elders and the org will drop them and not give them access to their own lawyers. They throw them under the bus.

It’s worth suing them just for the sheer enjoyment.

If they still disfellowship you and announce you - after you’ve sued them move congregation, turn up to the meetings for about 8 months - 1 year then write a lovely, glowing letter to the elders requesting reinstatement and tell them youre “so sorry” that you “upset Jehovah”.

You’ll be reinstated in about a year or so. If they keep rejecting you, write to the Service Department and complain (but in a nice way) - the elders will have their hands tied and have to let you back in.

Have fun with it!

Or, you could just move to a new congregation under a new name.

76

Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

by Sea Breeze in

here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

.

Vanderhoven7

Justified by grace alone (works excluded)

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more by works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:4-7 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.