Posts by Vanderhoven7

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Vanderhoven7

@EP

For some reason you don't want admit that, excluding Matthew 24:34, wherever Matthew's gospel places the definite article “this” (houtos) before “generation”, Jesus invariably is referring to His own evil generation.

LET'S CONSIDER ALL POSSIBLE GENERATIONAL APPLICATIONS.

CHRIST COULD HAVE INTENDED BY VERSE 34:

a. that "all these things" were to happen to the 20th/21st century generation exclusively.

- Impossible: conversation centers on "these stones" which were knocked down in 70 AD.

- Impossible Lu.21:23-24 states that subsequent to great distress, Jews were to be led captive to all nations which occurred immediately after the 70 AD destruction and is not going to happen again.

.

b. that "all these things" were to happen to both the first century generation and the 20th/21st century generation.

- Impossible since the temple no longer exists...and all we have left is its retaining wall as a sorrowful reminder

- Impossible since the Jews are already in all nations.

- Impossible since the great distress Jesus spoke of would not be repeated. "nor ever shall be".

.

c. that "all these things" were to happen to Christ's evil generation exclusively.

Possibility if only if it can be shown that
"all these things" declared before verse 34 actually did happen to the generation Jesus addressed ?

QUESTION: Was Matthew 24: 1 - 35 entirely fulfilled in the first century?

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Vanderhoven7

@ EP

Aside from Matthew 24:34 where Matthew's gospel places the definite article “this” (houtos) before “generation”, which group of people is always being referred to?

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Vanderhoven7

Look, even Watchtower got it right in part.

The following is an excerpt from The Watchtower of May 1, 1999 (p. 11,12) which contains some elements of sound interpretation.

"In the years leading up to 66 C.E., Christians would have seen many of the preliminary elements of the composite sign being fulfilled-wars, famines, even an extensive preaching of the good news of the Kingdom. (Acts 11:28; Colossians 1:23) When, though, would the end come? What did Jesus mean when he said: 'This generation [Greek, ge.ne.a'] will not pass away'? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, 'a wicked, adulterous generation.' (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." *

The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.!"

But the they go about trying to assume a secondary greater fulfillment which is totally unjustified by the text.

1. because of verse 21. "never shall be"

2. because the surviving Jews after the tribulation are not going to be dispersed as slaves among the nations once again (as they are already today). Luke 21:24

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Vanderhoven7

The first thing we need to do to understand the first 35 verses of Matthew 24 is look at the time text...which happens to be verse 34.

Mt 24:34

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Which generation was Christ referring to in Matthew 24:34?

The Greek word “genea” (pronounced ghen-eh-ah') appears thirteen times in Matthew's gospel. Four times it is used to delineate “one set of parents to the next”. Ignoring Matthew 24:34 for the moment, in every other appearance, including 6 of the instances Matthew places the definite article “this” (houtos) before “generation”, “this generation” (houtos genea), in context, clearly cover the same group of people -i.e. “Christ's contemporaries”. By the way, this holds true in every gospel.

Mt 11:16 But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, (evil persons then living contemporary with Christ)

Mt 12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.: (evil persons then living contemporary with Christ)

Mt 12:42 "The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. (evil persons then living contemporary with Christ).

Mt 12:45 "Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself.... That is the way it will also be with this evil generation ." (evil persons then living contemporary with Christ)

Mt 17:17 And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? ..." (evil persons then living contemporary with Christ)

Mt 23:36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Reading Mt.23:36 in context again shows " the persons then living contemporary with Christ are being referred to: 29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. :33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of Gehenna? 34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (evil persons then living contemporary with Christ)
Mt 24:34: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
What generation was Jesus referring to Matthew 24:34?

Note - I repeat, it is the same in all 4 gospels. "This generation" always refers to Christ's evil contemporaries...never a generation or generations removed, never the righteous and never overlapping.

36

Seven Reasons Why Jehovah's Witnesses Are Leaving Their Religion.

by Hairyhegoat in

these are good comments to consider enjoy!.

jehovah's witnesses who leave their religion, do so for many different reasons.

here are seven.. watchtower prophecies and dates for armageddon have failed repeatedly.

Vanderhoven7

1 They want to get involved in forbidden conduct. 2 They get angry, or stumbled, or fed up with how they are being dealt with unfairly.3 They get tired and just want to stay home. And that’s about it.

Add to that

4 They realize that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is not biblical and the Governing Body claim to be the Faithful and Wise Servant of Matthew 24 is hogwash.

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

Vanderhoven7

Great 👍

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Vanderhoven7

@EP

Actually everything before verse 36 was fulfilled in century 1, verse 34 being the time text regarding events that would tranpire affecting his own generation.

Jesus answered the question about his parousia after verse 36.

More to follow shortly.

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

Vanderhoven7

@EP,

Interesting.

If Michael is not merely an angelic being, what is he? And what personal interaction can Christians legitimately have with this being?

For example, could you proskyneo Michael with this hymn?

https://youtu.be/FJGJ1PT-wgo

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

Vanderhoven7

@EP

I am asking to find out if you have a biblically normative relationship with Jesus Christ...because I don't think that is possible if Jesus is merely an angelic being.

But prove me wrong.

Can you describe your personal interaction with Michael? Do you speak to him daily? Do you praise him? Do address him and share your thoughts and burdens with Him?

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Vanderhoven7

@EP

Matthew 24:1-35 describe events that occurred in the first century culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem and immediate aftermath.