My take is that ultimately, unless they repent of things like celebrating Christmas or birthdays with their families, smoking, or socializing with a disfellowshipped parent, child or sibling, they will be destroyed at Armageddon.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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What happens when people are shunned from the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
by Black Sheep inan article on rnz, a news site in new zealand.. https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/in-depth-special-projects/story/2018901718/something-evil.
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Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?
by Sea Breeze ini guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.
and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.
but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.
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Vanderhoven7
God alone has immortality. He has given or will give immortality to his faithful angels...and He will bestow the same to faithful believers at the resurrection. The question is
When will he grant immortality to the wicked so they can be tortured forever in the lake of fire?
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Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?
by Sea Breeze ini guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.
and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.
but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.
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Vanderhoven7
Matt.25:31-33, 41-46; The Parable of The Sheep and The Goats:
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on His left... Then He will say to those on His left, DEPART from me you who are cursed, INTO THE ETERNAL FIRE PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and ye did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me."
They will answer, "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?"
He will reply, "I tell you the truth, Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."
THEN THEY WILL GO AWAY TO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, BUT THE RIGHTEOUS TO ETERNAL LIFE.
Most will no doubt agree that the judgment scene in this parable and resulting punishment is final. But
- Is Eternal Torment explicitly taught in this parable? OR
- Is Eternal Torment demanded by the imagery in this passage?
IMAGERY: There are two basic images used in this passage that have been traditionally interpreted to denote torment - "eternal punishment", and "eternal Fire. Now I think it would be fair to conclude from the text that Eternal Fire and Eternal Punishment are equivalent terms because eternal punishment in this parable is represented as a banishment into eternal fire. But do either of these combinations necessitate conscious suffering?
WHAT ABOUT "ETERNAL PUNISHMENT": Does the word "punishment" or the words "eternal" and "punishment" together imply or necessitate torment?
To Punish (according to Webster's) is
1. to impose a penalty on for a fault or crime.
2. to inflict a penalty for (i.e.. treason with death)
3. to inflict injury on: syn. chasten, discipline, correct.
The Greek "kolasis", used only twice in the New Testament, is the word translated "punishment" in this text. Its primary signification is to "cut off" or prune or lop off; its secondary meaning is to restrain. The primary meaning here would suggest that while the righteous go to life, the wicked are forever deprived of or "cut off" from life. About kolasis, Fudge says;
The Septuagint puts 'kolasis' for mikshol, which means a stumbling block that leads to ruin. The word Jesus uses is applied to the Egyptian plague (Wisdom of Sol.11:13; 16:2; 24) but also to their death in the Red Sea (Wisdom of Sol.19:4).
It refers to punishment by death in I Samuel 25:31 and Ezekiel 21:15. "Punishment" may certainly include conscious pain, as in all the examples above, but it does not have to. The same word is applied to an idol of wood or stone in Wisdom of Solomon 14:10, which says that, "that which was made [idol] shall be punished together with him that made it"- Could the "eternal punishment" of the wicked simply be "eternal death" or "everlasting destruction"?
WHAT ABOUT ETERNAL FIRE: Does "eternal fire" clearly denote either conscious experience, or a continual burning flame which causes endless suffering? Or could "eternal fire" simply be a metaphor for eternal destruction? Interestingly, because something is eternal/everlasting in scripture does not necessitate endless perpetuity of action. For example, the scripture speaks of "Eternal Judgment", Hebrews 6:2, not in the sense that the final judgment scene will be reenacted day after day for eternity, but that a final judgment will be made that will have eternal consequences for the wicked.
- Similarly, rather than denoting an endless process of ongoing torture, could "eternal fire" be descriptive of a destruction which is unending in the sense that it is eternally irreversible?
- In other words, could the consequences of the fire be eternal and not the burning process itself?
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Deleting Elders Watchtower Style
by Vanderhoven7 inthe only spirit-directed organization on earth never ceases to amaze me.. https://www.youtube.com/live/0u2ohrbdm-c?feature=share.
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Vanderhoven7
Below is a dramatic training 10 minute video(only partial) for elders which shows what is being taught regarding how this exact situation should be handled....posted by MM
MenacingMistral on Gab: '' -
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Deleting Elders Watchtower Style
by Vanderhoven7 inthe only spirit-directed organization on earth never ceases to amaze me.. https://www.youtube.com/live/0u2ohrbdm-c?feature=share.
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Vanderhoven7
@ St G. Actially I was not expecting people to watch the entire video. The first 10 minutes is ample.
@Enough I'm hoping someone will post that shorter video on this thread.
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Deleting Elders Watchtower Style
by Vanderhoven7 inthe only spirit-directed organization on earth never ceases to amaze me.. https://www.youtube.com/live/0u2ohrbdm-c?feature=share.
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Vanderhoven7
The only spirit-directed organization on earth never ceases to amaze me.
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What would you change?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ini’m agnostic so maybe the universe started by chance or by design.. if it was by design (hypothetically) and the bible is the designers word, and jws seem to be the closest to it, then what would be the largest things you would change?.
here are a few ideas.
-do away with the governing body thinking they are gods only channel.
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Vanderhoven7
Which man-made man-run organization is closer to the truth of scripture than the WT organization?
I would say, just about every Evangelical Christian organization, whether they believe in the Trinity and hell and defensive warfare or not.
The WT organization may have the truth on hell and the soul but so what if they are preaching another gospel and another Jesus; a gospel that does not save and a Jesus that is unrelatable.
That's even ignoring their history of promotion of trusting in men for eventual and unbiblical salvation, false prophetic speculation, CSA cover-ups, child protection failure, despicable shunning practices etc.
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sinning against the Holy Spirit question
by enoughisenough inlet's assume that the bible is god's word and the men who wrote it were borne along ( inspired ) by holy spirit.
if one sets out to deliberately malign the bible, would that be considered a sin against the holy spirit?.
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Vanderhoven7
Yes...it's from the penitents Psalm
Psalm 51:
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence O Lord; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
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Theocratic Warfare
by Iamallcool inmost of us know what theocratic warfare means but maybe very few people reading this forum might never heard of theocratic warfare.
can you give them some examples of theocratic warfare?
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