Posts by Vanderhoven7

19

Why are aqwsed12345 post`s so long ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

there is no way i will even try to read such long posts and i`m sure many others here would agree with me.. smiddy3.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, many are too long. My suggestion

Deal with or challenge one or two main points on a subject or post and wait for comment.

21

Aside from the alleged "composite Sign", what is the scriptural evidence for Christ's 1914 presence?

by Vanderhoven7 in

my take is: 1914 is not biblical since no dates are in the bible.

a hodgepodge of scriptures are ingeniously linked together; then stir in about 9 creative assumptions to arrive at a speculative theory on which to base wts authority.. nathan knorr to fred franz.

"there are some things that i know.

My take is: 1914 is not biblical since no dates are in the Bible. A hodgepodge of scriptures are ingeniously linked together; then stir in about 9 creative assumptions to arrive at a speculative theory on which to base WTS authority.

Nathan Knorr to Fred Franz

"There are some things that I know. I know that Jehovah is God, that Christ Jesus is His Son, that he gave his life as a ransom for us, that there is a resurrection.

Other things I am not so certain about. 1914 I don't know. We have talked about 1914 for a long time. We might be right and I hope we are."

32

AN ALTERNATIVE CONVERSATION WITH A NEIGHBOR - Watchtower, October 2014

by AnnOMaly in

the contrived and unrealistic conversation that one of jehovahs witnesses imagined having with a neighbor in the october 2014 watchtower will not be reproduced here.

instead let us imagine another conversation another witness named andre (ahem, sorry) cameron has at the home of another man who is also named jon.keep searching for a suckercameron: jon, ive really enjoyed the regular discussions weve been having about the bible.

* the last time we spoke, you raised a question about gods kingdom.

Vanderhoven7

It seems that Bible scholarship supports 1914

"The matter of Bible chronology had long been of great interest to Bible students. Commentators had set out a variety of views on Jesus’ prophecy about “the times of the Gentiles” and the prophet Daniel’s record of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream regarding the tree stump that was banded for “seven times.”—Luke 21:24, KJV; Dan. 4:10-17.

As early as 1823, John A. Brown, whose work was published in London, England, calculated the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4 to be 2,520 years in length. But he did not clearly discern the date with which the prophetic time period began or when it would end. He did, however, connect these “seven times” with the Gentile Times of Luke 21:24.

In 1844, E. B. Elliott, a British clergyman, drew attention to 1914 as a possible date for the end of the “seven times” of Daniel, but he also set out an alternate view that pointed to the time of the French Revolution.

Robert Seeley, of London, in 1849, handled the matter in a similar manner. At least by 1870, a publication edited by Joseph Seiss and associates and printed in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was setting out calculations that pointed to 1914 as a significant date.

In the August, September, and October 1875 issues of Herald of the Morning, N. H. Barbour helped to harmonize details that had been pointed out by others. Using chronology compiled by Christopher Bowen, a clergyman in England, and published by E. B. Elliott, Barbour identified the start of the Gentile Times with King Zedekiah’s removal from kingship as foretold at Ezekiel 21:25, 26, and he pointed to 1914 as marking the end of the Gentile Times.

What is meant by the expression ‘Gentile Times,’ or “appointed times of the nations”? And how is it connected with God’s Kingdom? To answer these questions, let us take a more detailed look at Jesus’ words. He said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations [Gentiles], until the appointed times of the nations [Gentiles] are fulfilled.”—Luke 21:24.

What is meant by “Jerusalem”? It points to God’s Kingdom. How do we know? Ancient Israel was God’s chosen people from 1513 B.C.E. down to the first century of our Common Era. (Exodus 19:6; Matthew 23:37, 38) Jehovah organized them under a typical theocratic government, or God-rule. Jerusalem became the capital city. It was there that the God-anointed line of kings from David sat “upon Jehovah’s throne.” They ruled as kings for Jehovah. (1 Chronicles 29:23; 2 Chronicles 9:8) The Cyclopaedia by M’Clintock and Strong states: “Jerusalem had been made the imperial residence of the king of all Israel; and the Temple, often called ‘the house of Jehovah,’ constituted at the same time the residence of the King of kings, the supreme head of the theocratical state.”

When and how was Jerusalem trampled on by the Gentiles? The trampling began in 607 B.C.E. How? By the abrupt ending of the Davidic dynasty. King Zedekiah was dethroned and the city of Jerusalem destroyed by waves of invading Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. The Bible at Ezekiel 21:26, 27 foretold this breach in the Davidic line of kings by saying: “Lift off the crown . . . it will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” God’s rule was under restraint until “the appointed times of the nations” would end. Thus, the Gentile Times were a time period when the nations ruled without Jehovah God’s having a government to represent his rulership in the earth.

When the Gentile Times ended, Jehovah was to give the power to rule to the One “who has the legal right,” Jesus Christ. Therefore, 1914 would mark the time when Christ began to rule as King in God’s heavenly Kingdom, and since his rulership extends down to this day, it touches you

56

Are we living in the LAST DAYS?

by Fisherman in

are we living in the prophetic last days that will climax into armageddon?

if this is true then how long should it take?

as jw saw it, wt compared timing to within a generation using 70 ad as a parallel.

Vanderhoven7

One day is as a thousand years in the eyes of Jehovah.

This from The Bible’s Answer

"According to an official Jehovah’s Witness Watchtower article published in August 2015, titled “Watch Your Associations in These Last Days”, the following was said:

1. In what time period are we now living? WE ARE living in very difficult times. The Bible calls the era that began in 1914 “the last days.” These “critical times hard to deal with” are marked by conditions that are far worse than any experienced by mankind prior to that climactic year. (2 Tim. 3:1-5) Moreover, the world will continue to deteriorate, for Bible prophecy foretold that “wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse.”—2 Tim. 3:13.¹

According to the Watch Tower Society, the “last days” began in the year 1914, during which they claim Christ was enthroned and returned to the earth invisibly*. But was the year 1914 actually when the last days began?

When the Last Days Began

The Bible answers this for us:

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. (Hebrews 1:1–2)

This Bible passage makes it clear that the “last days” began not in 1914, but 2,000 years ago when Jesus Christ walked the earth. In biblical usage, the “last days” refer to the Messianic era, which began with Christ’s first coming, and will finish when he comes again to judge the living at the dead, which could happen at any moment now (James 5:7–9; John 6:40, 12:48). This is why the author of Hebrews wrote that Jesus came to the earth “at the end of the ages”, i.e. the last days, to put away sin by his sacrifice on the cross:

But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Hebrews 9:26)

This is also why the apostle Peter wrote “The end of all things is at hand” (1 Peter 4:7) 2,000 years ago, another clear reference to the fact that the New Testament Christians were also living in the last days. Furthermore, after the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Christians on the Day of Pentecost, Peter again said:

Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15 For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: 17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; 18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. (Acts 2:14–21)

Here, we clearly see that in the Scripture which Peter quoted, the prophet Joel taught that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit would happen “in the last days”, and that this was fulfilled 2,000 years ago on the Day of Pentecost. This again clearly teaches that the last days began 2,000 years ago.

When the Greatest Era of Tribulation For Jerusalem Took Place

In addition, the Watch Tower Society said that the year 1914 marked the beginning of conditions “far worse than any experienced by mankind prior to that climactic year.” Yet the Lord Jesus said:

But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything out, 16 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 17 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 18 Pray that it may not happen in winter. 19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. (Mark 13:14–19) (See also Matthew 24:15–21)

Jesus’ own words prove that the greatest era of tribulation began when “the abomination of desolation” took place, which was when the temple in Jerusalem was desecrated and destroyed by the Romans 2,000 years ago in 70 AD (See Daniel 9:26–27, Mark 13:1–5 and Luke 21:20–24). In fact, the Watch Tower Society even misquoted 2 Timothy 2:1–5 to support their teaching that the last days began in 1914, even though the passage says no such thing:

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. (2 Timothy 2:1–5)

Conclusion

Because the Watch Tower Society teaches that the last days began in 1914, even though the Bible so clearly teaches that they actually began in the first century 2,000 years ago, the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Watch Tower Society are therefore unbiblical and false prophets. Furthermore, because an honest reading of the above Scriptures would never lead anyone to the conclusion that the last days began in 1914, this shows that this teaching is a deliberate twisting of the Scriptures. It therefore makes one wonder: since they have mishandled such a clear and simple Bible teaching, how many more Bible teachings have they mishandled?

56

Are we living in the LAST DAYS?

by Fisherman in

are we living in the prophetic last days that will climax into armageddon?

if this is true then how long should it take?

as jw saw it, wt compared timing to within a generation using 70 ad as a parallel.

Vanderhoven7

Are we living in the last days?

Yup!

56

Are we living in the LAST DAYS?

by Fisherman in

are we living in the prophetic last days that will climax into armageddon?

if this is true then how long should it take?

as jw saw it, wt compared timing to within a generation using 70 ad as a parallel.

Vanderhoven7

So clear lastmanstanding. Don't know why I didn't see this before. Then we have to be really worried because the King of the east will abom-our-nation's headquarters in New York in the very near future. It's all there in black and white.

56

Are we living in the LAST DAYS?

by Fisherman in

are we living in the prophetic last days that will climax into armageddon?

if this is true then how long should it take?

as jw saw it, wt compared timing to within a generation using 70 ad as a parallel.

Vanderhoven7

So you see we can make the Bible say whatever we want it to mean.

56

Are we living in the LAST DAYS?

by Fisherman in

are we living in the prophetic last days that will climax into armageddon?

if this is true then how long should it take?

as jw saw it, wt compared timing to within a generation using 70 ad as a parallel.

Vanderhoven7

You have it all wrong. The last days started in 1960.

THE SEVENTIETH WEEK OF DANIEL
Did you notice exactly here just before Mr. Eisenhower went out, the last Protestant of America in the--in the president, which I doubt there'll ever be another one, but--but when... Just to show that... Just if people would wake up. When he met, there were... The last meeting that they--he met with Russia, there were five eastern communistic countries represented, five western countries. Mr. Khrushchev was the head of the eastern countries; Mr. Eisenhower was the head of the western countries. And Khrushchev, as I understand and been told, that in Russia, the language, "Khrushchev" means "clay," and "Eisenhower" means "iron," in English. There's your iron and clay will not mix. And he pulled off his shoe and beat the stand with it and everything else. It won't mix. But it's in the days of these empires that the rock Stone, that was hewed out of the mountain without hands, smote the image in the feet.

Respectable newspapers reported this event. The one genuine photograph we have from UPI (United Press International) shows Khrushchev with one of his tight new shoes on his delegate's desk or table.

So Khrushchev did take off his shoe and did put it on his desk or table.

The red oval indicates his shoe on the delegate's table or desk.

But this removal of his shoe dramatically brought the idea of the foot to the attention of the world. Taking off the shoe reveals the foot.

So this is proof that the last days started in 1960. Now that we are in the end time, we need a revelation of the seven church ages that form the feet of the Gentile image.

56

Are we living in the LAST DAYS?

by Fisherman in

are we living in the prophetic last days that will climax into armageddon?

if this is true then how long should it take?

as jw saw it, wt compared timing to within a generation using 70 ad as a parallel.

Vanderhoven7

Paul writing to first century Christians says "…

(God) who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col.1:13-17

Christ was made king in century one...post ascension.

The toes represented the Roman Empire

56

Are we living in the LAST DAYS?

by Fisherman in

are we living in the prophetic last days that will climax into armageddon?

if this is true then how long should it take?

as jw saw it, wt compared timing to within a generation using 70 ad as a parallel.

Vanderhoven7

The last days started in the first century according to Joel.

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: