Revelation 20:5) (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection
As I understand it the comment in parentheses was a scribale gloss.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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WRONG Bible wordings #2
by BoogerMan in2) (revelation 20:5) (the rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.
) this is the first resurrection.. wtbts: the term "come to life" is actually figurative and does not mean the literal resurrection of the dead.. there are 2 destinations for all those who are resurrected - some go to heaven, but most stay on earth.
also, both resurrections will occur at approximately the same time - at the commencement of the millenium.. revelation 20:5 states that the 2nd resurrection doesn't occur until after the 1000 years have ended, thereby rendering it a later resurrection.
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Vanderhoven7
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Vanderhoven7
Duh! Where else will we play golf?
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found a tract at my door/with a catch!
by enoughisenough ini found a tract at my door.
it was from a local baptist church!
( actually,i think someone wanted to give me a donation for the left over yardsale items i gave away.
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Vanderhoven7
When my dad was attending a JW conference while studying with Witnesses, he picked up an evangelical tract on the ground. A Witness grabbed it from him, crumpled it and tossed it on the ground saying it was apostate literature. My dad came back afterwards and picked up the tract and out of curiosity, read it. It wasn't much later that he became an evangelical Christian. His moto after that was, "After religion, try Jesus"
One difference was, that he retained the truth about no immortal soul and eternal torment.
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Vanderhoven7
Yes, try Revelation 21
The New Heaven and Earth
1¶And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.5¶And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.2 Peter 3:13 KJV — Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. -
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2023-10-13-Announcement (Reporting Field Service)
by Atlantis in2023-10-13-announcements (reporting field service).
page 1. https://imgbox.com/96lgsfw4 .
page 2. https://imgbox.com/zynoa02m .
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Vanderhoven7
Mark Jones writes
You know, for decades there would be released an annual report showing how many Jehovah’s Witnesses there are worldwide.
When the numbers dropped, they instead started to publish the number of peak publishers. This would include non-baptised children who had become “unbaptised publishers”. So it would look like the numbers went up.
Since COVID the number of people waking up skyrocketed. ExJW Reddit alone jumped by 25,500 members during 2020 alone. Since COVID to date, it’s increase has gone from 45,700 - 90,800 members. These include people who are still attending meetings, pretending to still believe it but wanting to leave.
Whenever Watchtower makes a policy change it is always due to one of three reasons:
- Legal issues.
- To save face.
- Money.
In this case, having to report the number of low membership AND low ministry reports would be damaging. The members would see how their golden calf org is failing. And has failed.
So, hey presto, simply say “we no longer keep stats on that” and the problem goes away.
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Looking for those with legal expertise to work for free
by ExBethelitenowPIMA inan announcement to all congregations those with legal experience please come and work for free to cover up child abusers.. i mean what else would it be for?.
the cheek of it.. so the direction was always don’t go for advanced education and careers but now they are looking for such ones to give if their time and education for free?.
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Vanderhoven7
Looking for JWs with legal expertise but without a conscience to work for free
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Son out?
by Nantiques inour son joined the wts 20 years ago.
we, his parents and siblings are not jws.
he is now 41. he knew we were "opposers" from the beginning, and so we were pretty much shunned by him.
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Vanderhoven7
Longish hair, beard, contacting opposers, reuniting with family, apologizing for shunning behavior...
Yup, he is free at last! Congratulations Dad!
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Waking up your Spouse!
by Vanderhoven7 inthis guy seems authentic to me.
what do you think.. https://youtu.be/p8o0slyi-ya?feature=shared.
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Vanderhoven7
This guy seems authentic to me. What do you think.
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How to talk to former Witnesses about their beliefs.
by Vanderhoven7 inmark jones writes.
there have been only a handful of occasions where a jehovah’s witness has successfully engaged me in respectable conversation with mutual respect.
one such person started off like this and (unfortunately) has become an angry little man over the years.
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Vanderhoven7
Mark Jones writes
There have been only a handful of occasions where a Jehovah’s Witness has successfully engaged me in respectable conversation with mutual respect. One such person started off like this and (unfortunately) has become an angry little man over the years. I can only imagine its because Armageddon hasn't come when it was supposed to be “imminent” 6 years ago.
If you really, sincerely wish to talk to me and other former Jehovah’s Witnesses about your beliefs your best bet would be the following:
- Understand that, despite what your magazines and governing body have told you, we didn't all leave because we “wish to sin”, “could not live up to “bible” standards” or “committed immorality”. Going in with a mindset like that sets you up to fail because you’ll think you’re talking to someone less “holy” or less worthy than yourself.
- Understand that, literally, all of us love truth. Which is actually why many of us left. We simply believe that the Jehovah’s Witness religion is not true. I’ve no doubt that you believe it’s true, but I dont believe that it is. And we can talk about that if you wish. What was it that I learned that you haven't learned yet? But that's ok we can still be friends. I was at a Sikh wedding last weekend. I’m not a Sikh. And that’s ok. They invited me anyway and we enjoyed the day (and the food!).
- If you think we’re wrong, simply show us why. Using Watchtower publications isn't going to make any different because, (see (2)) we dont believe the Watchtower society is publishing truth. Instead, use outside sources, or ask what we believe and why and how we developed our beliefs. If you work from there you’ll have us questioning our own ideas - which is good. We’re interested in truth and want to be corrected if we’re wrong. I’d hate to get to 80 years old and only then someone coming along and showing me I’ve been living a life based on error.
- Most of us dont claim to have “the” truth. At least, the ones in the atheist camp dont anyway. So asking us “where should we go?” or “if this isn't the truth, what is?” is a nothing question to us. (In fact, we’d likely remind you that Peter asked Jesus “to whom should we go?” not “where”). Personally, I dont tell people what to do. As an existentialist it literally goes against my morals and standards. I’d rather people think it out for themselves, take their time and go where the evidence leads them.
- Don’t assume we’re all the same. We’re not. When we left the Jehovah’s Witnesses (which many of us consider a high control group) we tend to have an aversion to leaders or following other people. There are several people within the exJW “community” (if there is such a thing) who are unpopular and divisive.
- A lot of us will know Watchtower literature very well. Reason being, we were very much full believers. We were interested in truth even back then. It was this love for truth which made us avid readers and researchers when we believed the Watchtower society was printing truth. Eventually, that thirst for truth takes an honest hearted Jehovah’s Witness to objective research and they eventually learn it isnt true at all.
- Not all of us jump back into “pagan” practices. Some people do because they’re eager to express their freedom and blend in with the rest of society. Some born-in Jehovah’s Witnesses who leave dont celebrate Christmas or birthdays at all and have an aversion to it because they have no memories of ever celebrating it and dont understand why people do it. In my case, I dont celebrate Christmas. My wife and kids do. I observe Saturnalia, which is the original festival without any connotation to Jesus. The difference is mine lasts longer. But we all acknowledge that we have no belief in any gods and it’s more of a nice thing to do in December. Hell, we’d celebrate Holi if there was an opportunity to in the UK.
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No more REPORTING field service!!!!!!!!!
by BoogerMan inthis is going to break the hearts of a lot of uber-jw's!
reddit has now removed the video link of samuel herd telling jw's they will no longer have to report time or placements - just tick a box which says "active.".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdshyx79rm&t=13s.
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Vanderhoven7
Y writes
While no former or current JW actually knows, we can only speculate. My speculation is that the Annual reports after Covid have not improved. Hours are way down according to the last couple years. The easiest way to fix this problem is to only track if someone participated in the ministry or did not. This will bring the publisher count up and perhaps to new highs. Otherwise, there is no good reason for the JWs to stop doing this. There were countless articles when I was in that explained why detailed reports were required and necessary. All sorts of reasons such as Jehovah being a God of order, how necessary preaching work changes could be made from this info.
The real reason for the reports were for accountability and proof of Jehovah blessing the organization using those statistics. The Kingdom ministry would publish a monthly report for your country and most importantly a “national average.” Most appointments within a congregation used the national average as the bare minimum for anyone to get appointed within the congregation. So I would guess that getting in good with the Elders is even more important now if you’re pursuing an appointment. But this is VERY counter to the preaching work being sped up. That line has been used many times over the decades.
Two rounds of bethel layoffs had that line attached to justify the need to downsize. Now the preaching work is becoming a formality. Instead of pursuing people, they stand at a cart and talk to no one. Now you just put down on a report whether you participated or not. The urgency is gone. The biggest change though is not the field service reports but the fact that the Great Tribulation is no longer the cutoff on whether you can make it through Armageddon. Now people can become JWs or even repent well into the Great Tribulation. If you’re a critical thinker, then you can wait to see if anything the JWs preach actually ever came true. Then throw your hat in if you desire. No reason to commit to an organization until they actually produced factual evidence of being right.