Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  43

  How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

  the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

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  Vanderhoven7

  Excellent Point Stan! Their number theory is untenable.
• 
  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Konagirl,

  I did not say that Hades hell was eternal. It is Gehenna aka the lake of fire which is eternal. I realize Hades is considered all about temporary torture until the final judgment where the torment will never end.

  Now, since you don't believe in torment after death, why do you think Jesus copied the Pharisees story about torment in the afterlife to illustrate some truth about judgment?

  And what was that truth he was illustrating?
• 
  43

  How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

  the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  According to Watchtower, only anointed Christians existed between the first and 20th centuries. The Great Crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.

  How do they support this conclusion?
• 
  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Konagirl

  Satire is not a joke. It is serious business. I am sure that you believe God's plan for those who reject Christ is torture. But torture is not the wages of sin. Do you really think Adam and Eve and just about everyone else are burning in Hades as we speak.

  Try

  https://youtu.be/yToS8shwDQI?si=k4ZjUXvCxy8_UXWb
• 
  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  2. 
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• 

  Vanderhoven7

  @Rattigan

  That the view of hell depicted in Luke 16 was an integral part of first century Pharisaic tradition is nowhere more clearly delineated than in the following excerpt attributed to Josephus, (himself a Pharisee) to explain the Jewish concept of Hades to the Greeks.

  "Now as to Hades, wherein the souls of the righteous and unrighteous are detained, it is necessary to speak of it. Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region...allotted as a place of custody for souls, in which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to everyone's behavior and manners... while the just shall obtain an incorruptible and never-fading kingdom. These are now indeed confined in Hades, but not in the same place wherein the unjust are confined. For there is one decent into this region...the just are guided to the right hand and are led with hymns, sung by the angels appointed over that place, unto a region of light, in which the just have dwelt from the beginning of the world; not constrained by necessity, but ever enjoying the prospect of good things they see, and rejoice in the expectation of those new enjoyments which will be peculiar to every one of them, and esteeming those things beyond what we have here; with whom there is no place of toil, no burning heat, no piercing cold, nor any briers there; but the countenance of the Fathers and of the just, which they see always smiles upon them, while they wait for that rest and eternal new life in heaven, which is to succeed this region. This place we call The Bosom of Abraham.

  But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence... they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it. "

  The Works of Flavius Josephus, William Whiston, A.M., Translator. Hartford Conn. The S.S. Scranton Co., 1900, pp. 901-902

  
  

  BTW, Abraham's Bosom is not found in the Hebrew Scriptures. It was invented in the intertestamental period to separate the just from the unjust in Sheol.
• 
  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  2. 
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• 

  Vanderhoven7

  @Konagirl

  That Jesus did employ satire at times is quite evident in the gospels. Examples of this include, Matthew 9:13, where Jesus exempts the Pharisees from His redemptive plan because He only came for sinners, not “the righteous” and again in Luke 13:13 where Jesus ironically expresses that prophets cannot possibly perish anywhere except in Jerusalem. Also in Matthew 22:23-33, Jesus silences the Sadducees on the question of the resurrection by expanding upon the nature of angels (verse 30). I don’t think for a moment that Jesus was seriously trying to convince the Sadducees of something they did not believe in by elaborating upon something else they equally dismissed as nonexistent.

  In order to establish that the literary form of Lazarus and the Rich Man is satire, or more particularly, a parody, there must be clear evidence that:

  a. A common or "well known story line is being imitated".

  b. irony is employed; that the story’s outcome is changed such that there is clear “incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the expected result”

  c. the unexpected results "highlight human stupidity" or corruption.

  d. "a comic end is served", the purpose of which is to cause listeners "to detach sympathies from certain people (groups), to judge their actions and to see the absurdity in their behavior…
• 
  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  2. 
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  Vanderhoven7

  Actually, Hades fire was the teaching of the Pharisees, a place where sinners would suffer from blasts of heat and cold, from burning coals in mouths that spoke blasphemy, lisencious men hanging from genitals etc. Jesus used their own ridiculous teachings in satire to counter their justification for not lifting a finger to help the poor.

  The Pharisees were not permitted to help the poor in the slightest because such would be countering God’s judgment. Accept God’s redemptive judgment and you will be rewarded in Abraham's Bosom in the afterlife. In Luke 16 Jesus has Abraham turning the tables on the Pharisees in the afterlife as they end up in the very hell they warned the common people to avoid for no reason other than they had good things in life. This is obviously a parody.
• 
  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  2. 
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  Vanderhoven7

  Right on Terry

  Re: Extra-biblical Assumptions:

  The Faithful Slave:

  1. was appointed.

  2. was appointed invisibly

  3. was appointed in 1919.

  4. was appointed in Brooklyn New York

  5. included Joseph F. Rutherford and other Bible Students who were Watchtower directors.

  6. was appointed because Watchtower directors were faithfully teaching the truth.

  7.
• 
  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Vanderhoven7

  TEXT: Matthew 24:45-47

  45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

  WT Eschatological Interpretation of the text:

  The Faithful Slave was appointed in New York in 1919 at Watchtower Headquarters…invisibly of course.

  This Slave happened to include at least 7 Watchtower directors as well as Joseph Rutherford, the then president of the Society.

  The Faithful Slave appointment was passed on to all subsequent Watchtower directors so that today the current 9 man Governing Body is the Slave. If you don't trust them, you don't trust Jehovah.

  Who else could the Faithful Slave be? If you don't believe this and obey the Slave, you will be destroyed at Armageddon… unless you die before the great tribulation starts and then you get an automatic pass into paradise.

  So hurry and come to Jehovah's Organization for salvation before it is too late.
• 
  9

  Ever changing teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  some might be interested in this comprehensive list of changes and reversals in the channel of truth.. reading history:.

  ever-changing teachings of jehovah's witnesses.

  the most important changes in the doctrine of the watchtower society in the years 1879-2015. .

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  Vanderhoven7

  Thanks Atlantis!