Posts by Vanderhoven7

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

"Taking young virgins and marrying them isn't rape....last time I checked. Are you suggesting these young virgins did not want to marry? If so, how do you know this? And please supply the passages that regulate rape in the Mosaic law."

<<True, it's kidnapping first. THEN it's rape.>>

Unless you provide a passage which shows that these Israelites raped the women they married, or that God/the law permitted this, you are simply making assumptions.

Or Deuteronomy 22:23-24, "If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife."

Yes the death penalty applied to adulterers under the law. But since consensual sex has nothing to do with rape, it appears you are simply looking for verses to express your bias against and contempt of scripture. You are obviously not interested in dialogue, just in condemning.

Vander

7

How do you add to your profile info and replace your graphic

by Vanderhoven7 in

somehow i blocked all the wacky generated graphics?

how does get into profile info and add and change stuff?.

vander.

Vanderhoven7

H E L P ! ! !

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

<<RAPE IS NOT IN THE BIBLE>>

<<Of course it is. Taking young virgins of conquered nations as wives, for instance. There are also regualations in the Mosaic Law regarding rape. It's there.>>

Taking young virgins and marrying them isn't rape....last time I checked. Are you suggesting these young virgins did not want to marry? If so, how do you know this? And please supply the passages that regulate rape in the Mosaic law.

Vander

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jam,

RAPE IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

It is true that rape is never the will of God although it is found in scripture. See Judges 19:25. As for Deut 20, yes, woman and children of of hostile foreign cities were to be spared, and not left unprotected after their men were killed. But they were not to be raped or abused.

As this is somewhat off topic, I could recommend a number of good commentaries if you are interested in the subject.

I assume that as a vet, you do believe that killing in war is sometimes necessary. Do you also believe that capital punishment is sometimes warrented?

Vander

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jam,

I first came to the horrible awareness of mankind's propensity for evil in grade school. We were shown a second world war documentary with actual footage of the fighting. There was one clip of German soldiers forcing Jews to dig trenches and in order to save bullets proceded to push men women and children into the trench. Then they started to shovel dirt over them. The victims were pleading to be shot...but to no avail. I'm sure if the soldiers refused to continue shovelling, they would be thrown in as well. I don't think any of these soldiers was retarded. And no doubt they loved their wives and children at home, provided for them and gave good gifts to them.

Of course I was horrified. It was wrong of the teachers to show us this film.

I am not recommending hatred of the soldiers involved, but I do believe that the death penalty is the correct response for such behaviour. I will continue to trust God's appraisal of sin and our condition. The cross, as God's judgment on sin, says it all.

In Christ,

Vander

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jam,

<<Oh I forgot, it was God's will to plunder, rape, kill (babies, animals)and to destroy everything in sight.>>

If we look at the flood, we see God destroying men, women and children. That's true. And God did give Israel the command to utterly destroy nations whose iniquity had come to the full. And also, according to scripture, it is true that God will shake the heavens one more time and destroy the wicked at the final judgment. Certainly God is the most dangerous being in the universe...without question.

However, rape is a form of torture. Destruction, yes....torture - no. Perhaps you could provide the scriptural evidence for your assertion that rape is part of God will.

BTW, what would you suggest as punishment for wicked men like Hitler and Stalin?

Vander

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Ding,

I believe you see Luke 16:19-31 as literal and historical. So if rich, well dressed and well fed men get the treatment Dives received, woe to the Hitler types. Yet if Hitler repented and accepted Christ moments before his death, he will be with you and I in heaven. Many would wonder about the justice in that. But we know that Christ suffered the full cup of divine wrath/ justice for every sinner.

As I see it, the "more stripes" Jesus talks about are not literal; but rather they are corrective and disciplinary as we stand before the Son of man to give account and receive for what we have done in the body. This is where the wood hay and stuble are burned up and many of us suffer loss.

Just as the ultimate punishment for murdering one man or ten in the OT was death, there is no basis for assuming there will be variation of that in the second death. The wages of human sin is death, not torment; it never was and it never will be.

Vander

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

Well, one thing about the Bible, it sure tells it like it is....not at all like our modern history books. :)

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

<<Vander- as any good Jew will tell you 'We never lost it'>>

That's a good one Designs.

But I got a book you should read.

It's called ...the Bible.

Never forget the golden calf. :^)

69

Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding in

we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Designs,

Actually, I am merely against the fundamentalist view of hell.

I am for the cross. But unbeknownst to most fundementalists, it's power reaches, both far back into history and extends into the age to come....where there will be all manner of sins forgiven save one. Christ died for all, and this will be testified to in due time.

Joseph, (a type of Christ), went into Egypt (type of the world) abandoned by his brothers (Israel) for the salvation of the world. Joseph's identity was hidden from Israel until the proper time. But notice Joseph's forgiveness of his brothers; they meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.

Even so, blindness in part has happened to Israel....

But I digress.