Posts by Vanderhoven7

30

A chance for the unrighteous?

by AlainAlam in

the witnesses teach that the "unrighteous" are brought back to life in order to learn about god during the 1000-year reign.

i don't think that's a bible teaching, for the following reason:.

1) no verse says that.

Vanderhoven7

I think in general we believe in universal eonian judgment starting with the house of God

JoenB75, I agree that believers are judged first.

Question: What do you believe that judgment is about or for?

30

A chance for the unrighteous?

by AlainAlam in

the witnesses teach that the "unrighteous" are brought back to life in order to learn about god during the 1000-year reign.

i don't think that's a bible teaching, for the following reason:.

1) no verse says that.

Vanderhoven7

Theological universalism posits that all of humanity will be saved in the end.

30

A chance for the unrighteous?

by AlainAlam in

the witnesses teach that the "unrighteous" are brought back to life in order to learn about god during the 1000-year reign.

i don't think that's a bible teaching, for the following reason:.

1) no verse says that.

Vanderhoven7

Where are the universalists on this forum? Now is the time to speak up.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

Vanderhoven7

Welcome to the forum AlainAlam!

Every doctrine that is unique to Jehovah's Witnesses is in fact extra-biblical.

Here are a number of examples

1. that their leaders somehow represent the Faithful and Wise Servant

2. that the book of Revelation is about them

3. that Jesus presence (parousia) began in 1914

4. that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE

5. that there are two classes of Christians (anointed and non-anointed)

6. that only faithful Jehovah Witnesses have a scriptural hope of surviving Armageddon.

7. that the name Jehovah is in the New Testament

8. that making God's name known involves telling people God's name is Jehovah.

9. that whole blood transfusions are outlawed in scripture.

10. that something scripturally significant happened in 1914, 1918, 1919, 1925 or 1975

11. that the tribulation spoken about in Matthew 24 is future

12. that WTS leaders can interpret Bible prophecy

13. that less than 150,000 faithful Christians existed prior to the 20th century

14. that only 144,000 people have a heavenly calling.

15. that 8 men in New York have been given the exclusive mandate and ability to interpret scripture.

16. that only Jehovah's Witnesses are real Christians

17. that "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 does not mean the generation Jesus was manifest in

18. that the 1914 generation is still with us

42

If You're Just Here to spread Your TDS, It's Time to Say Goodbye

by Simon in

if all you want to do it deliver a constant whine of "orange man bad" then find someplace else to do.

it.

frankly, i can't be bothered with the bullshit anymore.. honestly, your politics and the whole virtue signalling woke brigade has actually started causing real deaths and was ruining life for many before that.. if you can't control your disease, then i'll do it for you.. it's not open for debate..

Vanderhoven7

Adding to Cofty's comment...I expect that if Trump gets reelected, as I hope and anticipate, we will see cars overturned and burning in the streets of America.

Here's hoping I am not a better prophet than the WTS.

10

Testing For Transparency - An Honesty Check

by Vanderhoven7 in

please share any other yes/no questions that might fit with the following 10. also feel free to critique the 10 listed.. testing for transparency.

there are some facts that jehovah's witnesses are reticent to divulge to new prospects.

you may want to find out very early in your discussions if the witnesses you are studying with are open and truthful about their organization's doctrine and practices by asking them a series of sensitive (potentially embarrassing) questions about their personal beliefs.

Vanderhoven7

What I like about these yes/no questions is that they can springboard into greater discussion of the issues.

For example, the question on blood transfusions...

5. Do you believe that a Jehovah's Witness who willfully accepts blood transfusions would still have a scriptural hope of surviving Armageddon? (or would he forfeit that hope?)

could be followed with:

Would that dashed hope apply for Witnesses prior to 1945 when blood transfusions were permitted and even encouraged by the Watchtower?
Would you allow a family member to receive some blood components?
Does the Bible specify which components are acceptable and which ones are not?
Do you know if your religion has been consistent in determining allowable components?
Why is plasma unacceptable when all components are individually on the WT acceptable list? (water, albumin, proteins, fractions XIII and IX)
How about white blood cells (Leukocytes)? Do you know that millions are found in mother's milk and billions passed during organ transplants which are now acceptable to the Society?
According to your religion, what is wrong with donating blood? (immoral?)
Is it proper to benefit from immorally donated blood? Aren't JWs being parasites?

10

Testing For Transparency - An Honesty Check

by Vanderhoven7 in

please share any other yes/no questions that might fit with the following 10. also feel free to critique the 10 listed.. testing for transparency.

there are some facts that jehovah's witnesses are reticent to divulge to new prospects.

you may want to find out very early in your discussions if the witnesses you are studying with are open and truthful about their organization's doctrine and practices by asking them a series of sensitive (potentially embarrassing) questions about their personal beliefs.

Vanderhoven7

OK, some good additions here. I try to personalize these potentially embarrassing questions because I already know the official WTS responses so I feel dishonest asking questions as if I don't know the organizations' positions. That problem is solved when I ask them what they personally think/believe.

11. Do you believe that less than 150,000 faithful Christians existed prior to the 20th century? (33AD-1900)

12. Do you believe that Jehovah has promised to usher in a safe and secure new world before the 1914 generation expires?

13. Would you say that modern JWs are very similar to early Church Christians?

14. Do you believe that your organization's leaders have been given exclusive mandate and ability to interpret the Bible for Christians today?

15. Do you believe that the Bible can be made to say anything one wants it to say?

16. Would you say that Jehovah's Witnesses generally discourage their children from going on to university?

17. Are JW's able to see in detail how their donations are allocated and what they're invested in.

18. Are you sure that what you are being taught as truth today won't be dismissed as "old light" next month?

19. Are you or any members of your congregation currently shunning any of their children?

20. Do you believe a God of truth and honesty would allow his alleged appointed representatives on Earth to put his name on inaccurate information?

10

Testing For Transparency - An Honesty Check

by Vanderhoven7 in

please share any other yes/no questions that might fit with the following 10. also feel free to critique the 10 listed.. testing for transparency.

there are some facts that jehovah's witnesses are reticent to divulge to new prospects.

you may want to find out very early in your discussions if the witnesses you are studying with are open and truthful about their organization's doctrine and practices by asking them a series of sensitive (potentially embarrassing) questions about their personal beliefs.

Vanderhoven7

Please share any other yes/no questions that might fit with the following 10. Also feel free to critique the 10 listed.

TESTING FOR TRANSPARENCY

There are some facts that Jehovah's Witnesses are reticent to divulge to new prospects. You may want to find out very early in your discussions if the Witnesses you are studying with are open and truthful about their organization's doctrine and practices by asking them a series of sensitive (potentially embarrassing) questions about their personal beliefs. Certainly, their personal beliefs are expected to match the official teachings of their organization which demands complete unity of thought and practice.

It is important to realize that Jehovah's Witnesses are permitted and even encouraged to deceive people whom they deem unworthy of the truth. These would include those who they suspect are “opposers” of their organization and its' doctrines. Witnesses refer to this misleading practice as “Theocratic Warfare”.

SENSITIVE (Yes/No) QUESTIONS

Sample Lead in Question: Are there any aspects of your religion that trouble you or perhaps make you uncomfortable? (or is it all good?)

1. Do you see your religion as being the one true religion on earth today? (or the only religion that God approves of?)

2. Would you say that all other religions are essentially satanic? (or part of Satan's kingdom?)

3. Do you believe that God is planning to destroy all the churches of Christendom and their supporters?

4. Do you believe, perhaps with rare exceptions, that only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses have a scriptural hope of surviving Armageddon?

5. Do you believe that a Jehovah's Witness who willfully accepts blood transfusions would still have a scriptural hope of surviving Armageddon? (or would he forfeit that hope?)

6. Would you say that there is freedom among Jehovah's Witnesses to question or disagree with some things your religion teaches (I mean without repercussion)?

7. Do you know of any honorable way for a Jehovah's Witness to leave your religion?

8. Do you believe that adult Jehovah's Witnesses, who either leave or are disfellowshipped from your religion, should be shunned?

9. If you somehow lost faith in your religion's primary leadership, would you lose your faith in God and the Bible?

10. Do you believe that the gospel Jehovah's Witnesses preach today is the same gospel that Paul preached?

26

Jehovah's Witnesses Mistaken Ideas About What The Bible Teaches

by Vanderhoven7 in

let's add to the following list.

jws are mistaken when they believe the bible teaches:.

1. that their leaders somehow represent the faithful and wise servant.

Vanderhoven7

It's interesting though that it was James that took the lead in Acts 15 to conclude that the law was not applicable to Gentiles. Acts 15:13-21

Everyone, including Paul seemed to relax after that.😁

23

need input: Asked my wife to show me in the bible where Christ became King in 1914

by goingthruthemotions in

so my wife is so diluted and brainwashed.

during this time she is having so much anxiety, mainly because me and my son's want nothing to do with the religion.. so the discussion was, i told her will never go back because they go way beyond what the bible teaches all the time.

i brought up overlapping generation, 607 and then i told her...show me where in the bible that jesus returned invisbly in 1914 and started ruling?

Vanderhoven7

@BB

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Russell began with 607 because the walls began to be rebuilt in 537. Count back 70 years of God's predicted punishment and you arrive at 607 for the destruction of Jerusalem.

Once they had the 607 date then they used the 7 times of Dan 4 as you said to arrive at 1914.

But the 70 years were actually predicted years of servitude to Babylon and not of Jerusalem's destruction although during the years of servitude the city was destroyed and that as all non WT historians agree, took place in 587

So the WT calculations are all conjecture and theory which no real Bible scholar would support.