Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  16

  New Media Center

  by asp59 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ii wonder if you are a jw how new media center goes along with this text.. 1 corinthians 3:6-9new international version.

  6 i planted the seed,(a) apollos watered it, but god has been making it grow.

  paulus planted.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Oops...sorry asp for starting another thread on the same topic when I should have just added to yours.
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  20

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

  jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

  the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Right on Jeff. But here is the real truth.

  Jesus appointed our 12 church leaders to be his Faithful Slave in 1933 in Montreal Quebec Canada. This is fully Bible-based whereas New York is not Bible based. That was the same year Jesus returned invisibly and started ruling which the second world war, affirms. Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 BCE + 2520 years = 1933. It’s all in the Bible and if you don’t believe in our leadership you will die at Armageddon. Plain and simple.

  And no; we have not made any false prophecies or handed out millions in child sex abuse cases. And we never banned blood fractions or alternate service or vaccinations or organ transplants. We are the only true channel. Come to our victorious organization for salvation before it’s too late..
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  19

  Why build a new movie studio when we are in the last part of the last part of the last day?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  giles gray writes: .

  if the end is so near as the jehovah’s witnesses leadership claims (somehow they must have special insight), why are they building a movie studio that will be finished in 2026?.

  it’s not the first time something of this nature has happened in the society’s history.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Giles Gray writes:

  
  

  
  

  If the end is so near as the Jehovah’s Witnesses leadership claims (somehow they must have special insight), why are they building a movie studio that will be finished in 2026?

  It’s not the first time something of this nature has happened in the Society’s history. In the late 20th century the Watchtower was proclaiming emphatically that the end was imminent, even commending the members for selling “their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service” whilst at the same time the Watchtower were expanding their printing facilities.

  The excuse given was that even after Armageddon, the printing facilities would be needed in order to educate those who are resurrected during the 1,000 years reign of Christ.

  I suspect that deep down, the leadership of the Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t actually believe that the end is near, and additionally many rank and file Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe that it is near either.

  The lack of confidence they hold in their prophetic speculations and eschatology is clearly visible. They have back-pedalled from previously proclaiming with certainty and complete self-assurance that the Kingdom would be here by the end of the last century, to the cautious and cagey manner in which they put forward their prophetic predictions today.

  For example, the pre-1995 ‘Generation’ teaching was promoted with full conviction, and was even part of the study aid that Jehovah’s Witnesses used to teach new students and interested people. In those days it was considered a sure sign that the end was near. It was stated with no hint of doubt that the Generation of 1914 “WILL BY NO MEANS pass away” before the end came.

  Contrast the confidence of those days to the lack of conviction JWs have in the latest ‘overlapping Generation’ doctrine. I don’t know one Jehovah’s Witness who actually fully believes the current understanding with the same level of conviction that the pre 1995 teaching was believed by members. Apologists now hedge their bets by describing the prophesy as a ‘speculation’. They then attempt to excuse themselves from fully endorsing the overlapping teaching by stating that they don’t claim to be inspired prophets.

  The difference in the level of confidence in their convictions from the late 20th century to now is a result of the fact that they have finally been brought to account for all their hubristic prophetic claims of the past. Since the advent of the internet, Jehovah’s Witnesses are no longer in the position of being able to sweep their failed prophesies under the proverbial carpet unnoticed and unaccounted for.

  Critics of the religion, who have observed the failure of the Watchtower’s past false predictions, are alert to recognise current falsifiable prophesies that fail, and they now have a platform on which to speak out and expose the falsehoods.

  Jehovah’s Witnesses are no longer able to make end time predictions that have a finite timeline, so they are obliged to fall back into the ease of prophetic speculations which cannot be proved untrue, such as the open ended assertion that ‘the end is near’. This assertion can never be disproved and it can be used and abused to keep the faithful followers motivated. The nebulous, non specific nature of the speculation is used as a tool to create fear in anyone who has left the Organisation, manipulating their emotions to coerce them back ‘before it’s too late’.

  However, even this open ended unfalsifiable prophetic assertion can be challenged. If we take Jehovah’s Witnesses at their word, i.e. that they are not prophets and have no direct communication with God, it follows that they have no basis on which to make the claim that the ‘end is near’. Even if they point to the bible verses to back up their assertion, they have proved time and again that they cannot justify any claim to have an understanding of bible prophesy.

  Every speculation they have made has proved false, including the all-important ‘Gentile Times’ prophesy. As they are not prophets, Jehovah’s Witnesses have no way of knowing whether the Gentile Times prophesy currently believed is correct, especially in view of the fact that it was concocted over a decade after the previous failure. That allowed plenty of time during which a post hoc reinterpretation of the 1914 failure could be fabricated. But it’s important to note that the ‘Gentile Times’ prophesy at the heart of the Watchtower’s theology is pure speculation, even by their own admission. Their entire theological structure is founded on the Governing Body’s best guess as to what the bible says. They have no good evidence whatsoever.

  This means that they are not an any position to make prophetic predictions at all. And yet the Governing Body regularly speaks out in their videos and publications with full authority about prophetic passages in the bible. They claim that ‘we are so close to the time of end’ as if they have esoteric knowledge, while at the same time covering their backs and giving themselves a get-out clause by claiming not to be inspired prophets. Such double talk.

  ‘What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence’. The Governing Body and their followers will no doubt continue with their prophetic scaremongering for as long as they need to, in order to keep their religion alive, because their beliefs alleviate the fear of their own mortality. This is what their religion boils down to... they so desperately need to maintain their addiction to the hope of everlasting life.

  Undertaking the long term project of building these studios while simultaneously asserting the ‘end is near’ is the means by which they keep their false hopes and empty promises alive.
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  20

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

  jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

  the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

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  Vanderhoven7

  @Beth Sarim

  Winston is great.

  Yes, the 2 Class system is unsupported in scripture. I ask Witnesses to show me where the New Testament talks about Christians who are not indwelt by the Spirit, not sons of God, not in the New Covenant, and do not have a heavemly hope. Revelation 7 does not support the 2 class system invented by the Watchtower Society.
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  20

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

  jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

  the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Ok... what I am getting at is methodology. Can Jehovah's Witnesses recognize interpretive abuse? For example, can they distinguish between exegesis and eisegesis?

  Here is a question to ask any JW.

  What's wrong with the following interpretation of the parable of the treasure in the field.?

  Again the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hidden in a field; the which when a man has found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Mt.13:44

  
  Joseph Smith discovered a treasure in gold plates while walking in a field in Up State NY in the year 1823. He immediately buried/hid these plates, but three and a half years (1260 days) later, after fully dedicating himself to God's kingdom, he returned to unearth them. These plates were then translated into what we know today as The Book of Mormon. Compare Mt. 13:44 with Eze. 37:16 regarding the stick/book of Joseph.

  What do you think is wrong with the methodology used to derive this interpretation?

  How would you have responded when you were pimi JW?
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  20

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

  jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

  the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

  
  

  No.

  
  

  Jehovah's Witnesses see the Bible as an organizational book which only the Faithful and Discreet Slave (currently 8 men headquartered in Warwick New York) can interpret properly.

  
  

  The Faithful Slave was first appointed in Brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the Bible properly. This mandate and ability was passed on to all subsequent Watchtower Society leaders

  
  

  Now they have made interpretive errors in the past because they are imperfect men, but the light gets brighter and brighter for them. And so at this time only Jehovah's Witnesses can say they alone have the truth that leads to eternal life.

  
  

  So the question is: Does the Faithful Slave interpret the Bible properly? And the answer to that question is:

  
  

  No.

  
  
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  7

  Why are you guys against Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  why are you guys against jehovah's witnesses?.

  gilles grey writes:.

  in order to answer this question properly, it is important to distinguish between the various meanings of the phrase ‘jehovah’s witnesses’.

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  Vanderhoven7

  This one apparently went over like a lead balloon.
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  7

  Why are you guys against Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  why are you guys against jehovah's witnesses?.

  gilles grey writes:.

  in order to answer this question properly, it is important to distinguish between the various meanings of the phrase ‘jehovah’s witnesses’.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Why are you guys against Jehovah's Witnesses?

  Gilles Grey writes:

  In order to answer this question properly, it is important to distinguish between the various meanings of the phrase ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’. The term can refer to the individuals who are members of the religion, but also to the religious ideology known by that name. These are the two uses that I will consider in this answer.

  JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES AS INDIVIDUALS

  I have nothing against Jehovah’s Witnesses as people. In the main, I have found them to be lovely people, but they are unfortunately victims of their religion. Their emotions are continuously subjected to manipulation by the leaders at the top of the religion’s hierarchy who have the self-appointed authority to dictate the doctrines and to subtly control the members. The leaders make alluring but entirely false claims which appease the deep fears of the members and gratify their idealistic wishful thinking patterns, keeping them in a mind-trap.

  So many have thrown away their lives in anticipation of the fulfilment of their unsubstantiated hope in the Watchtower’s rendition of the ‘next life’, where they anticipate enjoying eternal youth with perfect health, and living in an idyllic world full of peace, harmony and prosperity for all.

  They have bought into all the irrational arguments and false reasonings used to uphold their religion, which has hooked them into a concept that is extremely addictive and hard to relinquish. After all, who wouldn’t relish the prospect of living forever on a paradise earth?

  The hubristic claims made by the founder of the religion in the 1870s have been vastly added to and reshaped over the years. Successive leaders have become more and more carried away with promoting their assertions as the absolute and unquestionable truth, to the point that now members don’t pause to check whether or not their beliefs are based on a solid foundation or on rational arguments. All they care about and fixate on is having their future hopes affirmed. They only consider ‘evidence’ that appears to promote their romantic notion of the future and conversely reject anything that challenges what they choose to believe.

  The only significant objection I have against Jehovah’s Witnesses as individuals is their dogmatic irrationality.

  JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES AS A RELIGION

  The most serious issue I have with the religion is that there is no good evidence to back up any of the claims that the followers buy into, and the core of its entire theology is based on irrational arguments. These include presuppositions, baseless assertions, false reasoning and logical fallacies. At first glance, the teachings have the appearance of having their roots in sound logic and good reasoning, but when closely examined, they have no validity whatsoever.

  If one looks into the apologetics of the Jehovah’s Witnesses in any depth, it quickly becomes all too evident that the premise of every argument they use to uphold their convictions is based on a logical fallacy.

  Let’s consider a few common false arguments they use:-

  Jehovah’s Witnesses’ teachings come from the bible

  To a Jehovah’s Witness, this argument is all that is required to assure them that their beliefs are correct. If their beliefs harmonise with the bible then they are considered true. But this claim does not in any way indicate that they are correct.

  Jehovah’s Witnesses conveniently overlook the fact that every previous teaching which has since been discarded was likewise originally firmly based on the bible, but those teachings are now considered to have been wrong. They also ignore the awkward reality that every one of their widely promoted prophetic interpretations was based on the bible, but every single one also proved to be false.

  These facts should cause Jehovah’s Witnesses to have serious reservations about their current teachings. They have no means of knowing that their current understanding of the bible is correct and no idea whether or not the teachings that they now preach and believe are the truth, will also be discarded in the future.

  God reveals His truth in a progressive manner… otherwise known as the ‘progressive light’ argument

  If you were to highlight to a Jehovah’s Witness any past teaching which has now been proved wrong, it’s virtually guaranteed that you would soon be presented with the argument above.

  The ‘progressive understanding’ argument commits the logical fallacy known as ‘moving the goal posts’. When a doctrine has proved to have been wrong or when falsehoods are brought to light, the Governing Body simply invents another teaching and claims it as a ‘new truth’ from God. Any ‘old truth’ can thus easily be discarded without accountability. Attempts are usually made by the leadership to supress mention of the previous old ‘truth’ amongst members. The change of doctrine is invariably couched in positive terms, heavily playing down any inconsistency, and the members submissively accept the new understanding without question. However former members are quick to spot when the goal posts are moved and question the motive in great depth .

  Progressive light places a serious question mark over all the current beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses, because each teaching could well be subject to ‘progressive understanding’ in the future. All their doctrines could be wrong, in the same way that they now consider many of the teachings of the early 20th century to be mistaken.

  Furthermore, JWs do not extend to other religions this same liberty to discard failed or embarrassing teachings, despite seeing no problem in awarding themselves the right to do so whenever necessary. On an equal playing field, every denomination and faith community has the same authority to claim they are the one true religion, because all of them can assert that they are awaiting correction from God, thereby negating any false teachings they happen to hold. But it escapes the JWs attention that logically they should equally excuse errors in other religions using the same reasoning they use for their own failings.

  JWs also spin the fact that they have owned up to (some of) their past mistakes and portray it as a virtue. They don’t recognise that admitting errors does not negate the fact that these serious mistakes undermine their position or that these errors have important ramifications as explained above. Neither do they graciously excuse other religions who have far more readily, publicly and humbly owned up to making mistakes. But they expect full leniency when justifying their own failings.

  The ‘progressive light’ argument renders all the Watchtower’s teachings as unfalsifiable, i.e. they cannot be proved false, however they also cannot be proved true. This fact leaves Jehovah’s Witnesses with no metric with which to evaluate their beliefs. Owing to the almost infinite number of ways the bible can be interpreted, there is no solidity in their theological structure.

  If Jehovah’s Witnesses are not the true religion, who is (whom shall we go away to)?

  This argument commits the ‘argument from ignorance’ fallacy and is a very easy trap to fall into. It presupposes that there is a ‘true’ religion, and when all other religions fail to meet up to the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ criteria, they make the flawed conclusion that their religion is the only one left standing and therefore must be the correct one, or the one that has the most ‘truth’. It is incredible how many Jehovah’s Witnesses fall for this argument in their defence of their religion.

  They overlook the fact that every proposition stands or falls on its own merit. The fact that a religion can be demonstrated to be untrue, doesn’t indicate that another religion is more credible by default. Even if all the world’s other religions are false, it doesn’t make the Jehovah’s Witnesses any more true. The theological teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses need to meet their burden of proof regardless of the status of the religious teachings of alternative denominations with whom they disagree.

  False reasoning keeps so many JWs indoctrinated by the Watchtower’s dogma and so many lives are wasted as a result. Flawed apologetics keep members prisoner to this religion. So many have sacrificed their freedom and become addicted to a false hope which is based on unsubstantiated theological dogma. It is this that I hold against the Jehovah’s Witnesses as a religion, and it is for this reason that I expose it's falsehoods, in the hope that I might help a few to avoid the pitfalls of allying themselves to an ideology founded on empty promises.
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  44

  Dearest Tec... re the Rich Man and Lazarus..

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!.

  thank you for your kind patience.

  his request to have lazarus dip the "tip" of his finger in "water" and "cool" his "tongue," tells us: there is no water in the world of the dead.

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  Vanderhoven7

  I finally made a video entitled, "Lazarus and the Rich Man: Parable or Parody".

  I'd like some feedback if you have the time and inclination.

  https://youtu.be/2Y-p9Ol_Shs
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  25

  Differences, on average, between men and women

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. social
  2. current

  quite bizarrely, there are people trying their level best to blur the lines between man and woman, male and female.. so, i thought it a fairly good idea to list the differences, on average, between men and women.. ok, starting with the most obvious .... women have a vulva, a vagina, and internal gonads (ovaries); men have a penis and external gonads (testes).. women get pregnant, give birth and breastfeed their babies; men do none of those things.. men are taller than women.. men have greater upper-body strength than women.

  men have greater bone density and percentage of muscle mass than women.. women live longer than men (this is partly due to life choices and behaviour and partly due to genetics).. men have higher testosterone levels than women.. men heal more quickly from physical injury than women.. the sexual dynamics between men and women tend to be different, too.

  re sexual selection, women typically have their choice of the most suitable men.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Or shipping preferences....