Indeed! It's like they are entirely blind to Matthew 25, the sheep and the goats parable.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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What are the maim lies Apostates tell about Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inmain not maim.
picked this answer up on quora.
please add other apostate "lies" you are aware of.. "jehovah's witnesses cannot refute the facts in the so-called “ lies” against them, and when they do, they shamelessly lie and tell half-truths to defend their mind-controlling sect.. their new york based leaders tell them that anything negative said about their sect is a “ lie “ from “ mentally diseased, bitter apostates”.. jws are yet to come to terms with the fact that we are in the information age and they can no longer get away with lying to protect their organisation.. for example, one of the “ lies “ told about them is that they shun anyone who leaves the cult , including family members, including their own children.. another “ lie “ is that jws are ready to allow their children to die rather than accept a life-saving blood transfusion.. the child sex abuse coverup in the cult is also said to be a “lie “.
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What are the maim lies Apostates tell about Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inmain not maim.
picked this answer up on quora.
please add other apostate "lies" you are aware of.. "jehovah's witnesses cannot refute the facts in the so-called “ lies” against them, and when they do, they shamelessly lie and tell half-truths to defend their mind-controlling sect.. their new york based leaders tell them that anything negative said about their sect is a “ lie “ from “ mentally diseased, bitter apostates”.. jws are yet to come to terms with the fact that we are in the information age and they can no longer get away with lying to protect their organisation.. for example, one of the “ lies “ told about them is that they shun anyone who leaves the cult , including family members, including their own children.. another “ lie “ is that jws are ready to allow their children to die rather than accept a life-saving blood transfusion.. the child sex abuse coverup in the cult is also said to be a “lie “.
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Vanderhoven7
One of the big Apostate "lies" is that Jehovah's Witnesses don't help the poor.
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What are the maim lies Apostates tell about Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inmain not maim.
picked this answer up on quora.
please add other apostate "lies" you are aware of.. "jehovah's witnesses cannot refute the facts in the so-called “ lies” against them, and when they do, they shamelessly lie and tell half-truths to defend their mind-controlling sect.. their new york based leaders tell them that anything negative said about their sect is a “ lie “ from “ mentally diseased, bitter apostates”.. jws are yet to come to terms with the fact that we are in the information age and they can no longer get away with lying to protect their organisation.. for example, one of the “ lies “ told about them is that they shun anyone who leaves the cult , including family members, including their own children.. another “ lie “ is that jws are ready to allow their children to die rather than accept a life-saving blood transfusion.. the child sex abuse coverup in the cult is also said to be a “lie “.
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Vanderhoven7
Excellent scriptures Punkofnice.
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26
What are the maim lies Apostates tell about Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inmain not maim.
picked this answer up on quora.
please add other apostate "lies" you are aware of.. "jehovah's witnesses cannot refute the facts in the so-called “ lies” against them, and when they do, they shamelessly lie and tell half-truths to defend their mind-controlling sect.. their new york based leaders tell them that anything negative said about their sect is a “ lie “ from “ mentally diseased, bitter apostates”.. jws are yet to come to terms with the fact that we are in the information age and they can no longer get away with lying to protect their organisation.. for example, one of the “ lies “ told about them is that they shun anyone who leaves the cult , including family members, including their own children.. another “ lie “ is that jws are ready to allow their children to die rather than accept a life-saving blood transfusion.. the child sex abuse coverup in the cult is also said to be a “lie “.
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Vanderhoven7
Main not Maim
Picked this answer up on Quora. Please add other apostate "lies" you are aware of.
"Jehovah's Witnesses cannot refute the facts in the so-called “ lies” against them, and when they do, they shamelessly lie and tell half-truths to defend their mind-controlling sect.
Their New York based leaders tell them that anything negative said about their sect is a “ lie “ from “ mentally diseased, bitter apostates”.
Jws are yet to come to terms with the fact that we are in the information age and they can no longer get away with lying to protect their organisation.
For example, one of the “ lies “ told about them is that they shun anyone who leaves the cult , including family members, including their own children.
Another “ lie “ is that Jws are ready to allow their children to die rather than accept a life-saving blood transfusion.
The child sex abuse coverup in the cult is also said to be a “lie “. ..even though it is well publicised and even the court transcripts easily available.
They also claim that the accusation of making multiple false Armageddon predictions is a lie, never mind that the evidence is in their Watchtower literature."
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Consumption of Blood
by MikeJH ini am new to this and recently converted, so please forgive my ignorance.. i am trying not to sin and don't understand something.
it says in leviticus that you cannot consume blood, so no blood transfusions.
i understand this.
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Vanderhoven7
Welcome to the forum MikeJH!
It is interesting that Jews could eat animals found dead in their fields (unbled) with relative impunity. They would merely have to wash their clothes and be unclean until evening.
Leviticus 11:38,39 - "If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening." Also Leviticus17:14,15
So enjoy your rare steak Bro!
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Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?
by Disillusioned JW inis bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding a prelude to the great tribulation?.
full disclosure: i still don't believe in the bible's claims about the existence of the supernatural, even of jehovah god (i'm an atheist and a scientific/philosophical naturalist), but i am asking this question because recent events are starting to seem (to me) to fit well the description of some prophecies in the bible.
consider the following.. several hours ago (on 11-26-2021) as i was about to enter a local fred meyer store of my city (in suburb or small city in the metro area of a large city) a person i know told me that a moment earlier a person left the store in a hurry with a cart load up with unpaid merchandise (i think i was told it was groceries but i don't remember that for sure).
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Disillusioned,
Could be...but the difference is that Clarke applies these to the destruction of Jerusalem.
This thread is about the great tribulation which the Watchtower has misapplied and used to control its adherents for decades.
By reading the synoptics on the subject, I don't see how anyone can legitimately come up this being a future event.
THE GREAT TRIBULATION
The synoptics support that the great tribulation Jesus spoke about would be an unrepeatable local event.
Matthew 24:15-21 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
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Mark 13:14-19 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:
14. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
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Luke 21:20-24 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
According to Luke's gospel, the culmination of the great tribulation on Israel would find Jerusalem destroyed, many slaughtered and the survivors led away captive to all nations which happened in 70 AD and will not be repeated at or after Christ's Second coming.
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Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?
by Disillusioned JW inis bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding a prelude to the great tribulation?.
full disclosure: i still don't believe in the bible's claims about the existence of the supernatural, even of jehovah god (i'm an atheist and a scientific/philosophical naturalist), but i am asking this question because recent events are starting to seem (to me) to fit well the description of some prophecies in the bible.
consider the following.. several hours ago (on 11-26-2021) as i was about to enter a local fred meyer store of my city (in suburb or small city in the metro area of a large city) a person i know told me that a moment earlier a person left the store in a hurry with a cart load up with unpaid merchandise (i think i was told it was groceries but i don't remember that for sure).
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Vanderhoven7
Here is what Adam Clarke has to say in his commentary on Matthew 24:29-31
Verse 29
Verse 29. Immediately after the tribulation, c.] Commentators generally understand this, and what follows, of the end of the world and Christ's coming to judgment: but the word immediately shows that our Lord is not speaking of any distant event, but of something immediately consequent on calamities already predicted: and that must be the destruction of Jerusalem. "The Jewish heaven shall perish, and the sun and moon of its glory and happiness shall be darkened-brought to nothing. The sun is the religion of the Church the moon is the government of the state; and the stars are the judges and doctors of both. Compare Isaiah 13:10; Ezekiel 32:7-8, c." Lightfoot.
In the prophetic language, great commotions upon earth are often represented under the notion of commotions and changes in the heavens:-
The fall of Babylon is represented by the stars and constellations of heaven withdrawing their light, and the sun and moon being darkened. See Isaiah 13:9-10.
The destruction of Egypt, by the heaven being covered, the sun enveloped with a cloud, and the moon withholding her light. Ezekiel 32:7-8.
The destruction of the Jews by Antiochus Epiphanes is represented by casting down some of the host of heaven, and the stars to the ground. See Daniel 8:10.
And this very destruction of Jerusalem is represented by the Prophet Joel, Joel 2:30-31, by showing wonders in heaven and in earth - darkening the sun, and turning the moon into blood. This general mode of describing these judgments leaves no room to doubt the propriety of its application in the present case.
The falling of stars, i.e. those meteors which are called falling stars by the common people, was deemed an omen of evil times.
Verse 30
Verse 30. Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man — The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ's power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By της γης, of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.
Verse 31
Verse 31. He shall send his angels — τους αγγελους, his messengers, the apostles, and their successors in the Christian ministry.
With a great sound of a trumpet — Or, a loud-sounding trumpet - the earnest affectionate call of the Gospel of peace, life, and salvation.
Shall gather together his elect — The Gentiles, who were now chosen or elected, in place of the rebellious, obstinate Jews, according to Our Lord's prediction, Matthew 8:11-12, and Luke 13:28-29. For the children of the kingdom, (the Jews who were born with a legal right to it, but had now finally forfeited that right by their iniquities) should be thrust out. It is worth serious observation, that the Christian religion spread and prevailed mightily after this period: and nothing contributed more to the success of the Gospel than the destruction of Jerusalem happening in the very time and manner, and with the very circumstances, so particularly foretold by our Lord. It was after this period that the kingdom of Christ began, and his reign was established in almost every part of the world.
To St. Matthew's account, St. Luke adds, Luke 21:24, They shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shalt be led away captive into all nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, till the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. The number of those who fell by the sword was very great. ELEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND perished during the siege. Many were slain at other places, and at other times. By the commandment of Florus, the first author of the war, there were slain at Jerusalem 3,600, Jos. WAR, b. ii. c. 14. By the inhabitants of Caesarea, above 20,000. At Scythopolis, above 13,000. At Ascalon, 2,500. At Ptolemais, 2,000. At Alexandria, 50,000. At Joppa, when taken by Cestius Gallus, 8,400. In a mountain called Asamon, near Sepporis, above 2,000. At Damascus, 10,000. In a battle with the Romans at Ascalon, 10,000. In an ambuscade near the same place, 8,000. At Japha, 15,000. Of the Samaritans, on Mount Gerizim, 11,600. At Jotapa, 40,000. At Joppa, when taken by Vespasian, 4,200. At Tarichea, 6,500. And after the city was taken, 1,200. At Gamala, 4,000, besides 5,000 who threw themselves down a precipice. Of those who fled with John, of Gischala, 6,000. Of the Gadarenes, 15,000 slain, besides countless multitudes drowned. In the village of Idumea, above 10,000 slain. At Gerasa, 1,000. At Machaerus, 1,700. In the wood of Jardes, 3,000. In the castle of Masada, 960. In Cyrene, by Catullus the governor, 3,000. Besides these, many of every age, sex, and condition, were slain in the war, who are not reckoned; but, of those who are reckoned, the number amounts to upwards of 1,357,660, which would have appeared incredible, if their own historian had not so particularly enumerated them. See Josephus, WAR, book ii. c. 18, 20; book iii. c. 2, 7, 8, 9; book iv. c. 1, 2, 7, 8, 9; book vii. c. 6, 9, 11; and Bp. Newton, vol. ii. p. 288-290.
Many also were led away captives into all nations. There were taken at Japha, 2,130. At Jotapa, 1,200. At Tarichea, 6,000 chosen young men, who were sent to Nero; others sold to the number of 30,400, besides those who were given to Agrippa. Of the Gadarenes were taken 2,200. In Idumea above 1,000. Many besides these were taken in Jerusalem; so that, as Josephus says, the number of the captives taken in the whole war amounted to 97,000. Those above seventeen years of age were sent to the works in Egypt; but most were distributed through the Roman provinces, to be destroyed in their theatres by the sword, and by the wild beasts; and those under seventeen years of age were sold for slaves. Eleven thousand in one place perished for want. At Caesarea, Titus, like a thorough-paced infernal savage, murdered 2,500 Jews, in honour of his brother's birthday; and a greater number at Berytus in honour of his father's. See Josephus, WAR, b. vii. c. 3. s. 1. Some he caused to kill each other; some were thrown to the wild beasts; and others burnt alive. And all this was done by a man who was styled, The darling of mankind! Thus were the Jews miserably tormented, and distributed over the Roman provinces; and continue to be distressed and dispersed over all the nations of the world to the present day. Jerusalem also was, according to the prediction of our Lord, to be trodden down by the Gentiles. Accordingly it has never since been in the possession of the Jews. It was first in subjection to the Romans, afterwards to the Saracens, then to the Franks, after to the Mamalukes, and now to the Turks. Thus has the prophecy of Christ been most literally and terribly fulfilled, on a people who are still preserved as continued monuments of the truth of our Lord's prediction, and of the truth of the Christian religion. See more in Bp. Newton's Dissert. vol. ii. p. 291, &c.
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Now question all these people disfellowshipped for adulteres marriage
by Yomama indo they get apology for getting the boot?.
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Vanderhoven7
Has the new light on remarriage been published already? Any quotations from WT publications available?
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Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?
by Disillusioned JW inis bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding a prelude to the great tribulation?.
full disclosure: i still don't believe in the bible's claims about the existence of the supernatural, even of jehovah god (i'm an atheist and a scientific/philosophical naturalist), but i am asking this question because recent events are starting to seem (to me) to fit well the description of some prophecies in the bible.
consider the following.. several hours ago (on 11-26-2021) as i was about to enter a local fred meyer store of my city (in suburb or small city in the metro area of a large city) a person i know told me that a moment earlier a person left the store in a hurry with a cart load up with unpaid merchandise (i think i was told it was groceries but i don't remember that for sure).
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Vanderhoven7
@Lastmanstanding
Relying on Kik and others here:
30. AND THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF
MAN IN HEAVEN: AND THEN SHALL ALL THE TRIBES
OF THE EARTH MOURN, AND THEY SHALL SEE THE SON
OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH
POWER AND GREAT GLORY.Note that it is "the sign of the Son of Man in heaven", not the Son
of man visiting the earth. At the destruction of Jerusalem, the sign
or precursor to His coming to destroy was found in the fulfillment
of these predicted calamities and finally the surrounding of
Jerusalem by the Roman armies. Of course as these calamities and
ultimate destruction, befell them, the tribes would mourn. The
Jews were eventually left without temple, city, sacrifice or
priesthood as was prophesied by Daniel.AND THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN
THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT
GLORY.Does the phrase "coming (not parousia) in the clouds"
necessarily refer to a personal coming to earth? We should not
read that thought into the text. Is. 19:1 states "See the Lord rides
on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt
shall be moved at His presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in
the midst of it" Although this verse speaks of the Lord riding on a
cloud and of His presence, we know that the Egyptians did not see
the Lord in a personal and visible way. The expression is rather
used to indicate a coming in judgment against Egypt. Jesus
coming in the clouds against Israel thus refers to a similar kind of
judgment.The clouds of heaven obscure or shut heaven from man's view.
They were to see the Lord Jesus coming to judgment with power.
This power was manifest in the destruction. The word glory refers
to the visible display of his honor, power and majesty.That Jesus destroyed the city in 70 AD is accurate. As Daniel 9:27
reveals; because of the over spreading of abominations, he, the
Lord and Messiah himself would make it desolate. Titus was
merely his instrument.31. AND HE SHALL SEND HIS ANGELS WITH A GREAT
SOUND OF A TRUMPET, AND THEY SHALL GATHER
TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM
ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER. Mi.1:1-3The trumpet represents a proclamation. In this case it is the
gospel. The term angelos is frequently used in the New Testament
to refer to earthly messengers (i.e. the followers of Christ)
Lu.7:24, 9:32, Mk.1:2 II Cor. 8:33 They carry the gospel
message and gather the elect into the kingdom throughout the
earth (from one end of heaven to the other).
32. NOW LEARN A PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE; WHEN
HIS BRANCH IS YET TENDER, AND PUTTETH FORTH
LEAVES, YE KNOW THAT SUMMER IS NIGH: 33. SO LIKEWISEYE, WHEN YE SHALL SEE THESE THINGS, KNOW THAT IT IS
NEAR, EVEN AT THE DOORS.
The Christians Christ addressed were to KNOW the time of
Jerusalem's destruction; so they could take immediate flight to the
mountains. They knew that the Abomination of desolation
referred to the surrounding gentile armies that would make
Jerusalem a desolation (compare Mat.24: 15, 16 with Luke 21:21-
24). That was the cue/sign. And that is why no Christian perished
in the destruction!34. VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, THIS GENERATION SHALL
NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE FULFILLED.
(23:38)There would be a complete fulfillment of every detail of this
prophecy to the generation to which Christ referred.35. HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY, BUT MY WORDS SHALL NOT PASS AWAY.
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63
Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?
by Disillusioned JW inis bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding a prelude to the great tribulation?.
full disclosure: i still don't believe in the bible's claims about the existence of the supernatural, even of jehovah god (i'm an atheist and a scientific/philosophical naturalist), but i am asking this question because recent events are starting to seem (to me) to fit well the description of some prophecies in the bible.
consider the following.. several hours ago (on 11-26-2021) as i was about to enter a local fred meyer store of my city (in suburb or small city in the metro area of a large city) a person i know told me that a moment earlier a person left the store in a hurry with a cart load up with unpaid merchandise (i think i was told it was groceries but i don't remember that for sure).
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Vanderhoven7
Lastmanstanding,
Actually I give no fodder to the Watchtower on this subject. From my perspective, the signs or the composite sign as Watchtowerites like to say, does not apply to the second coming but to His coming in judgment on Jerusalem in century one.
The thesis I hold did not originate with me. I owe my understanding of Matthew 24 to Marcellus Kik's work entitled, Matthew 24.
Verses 1-35 outlining what would and wouldn't happen to Jerusalem in the first century and verses 36 - end describing what would happen at his second advent.
The disciples no doubt confused the destruction of the temple with the final judgment. Jesus clarified or distinguish the two events quite clearly i.e., what would happen to his generation and what would transpire at the end of world.
Why do you think my understanding is cause for concern?