Posts by Vanderhoven7

17

Disfellowshipping

by jhine in

so last night my bible study group was discussing the healing of the blind man in john's gospel.

ch 9 .

the man's parents were reluctant to say much on the subject.

Disfellowshipping

by jhine in

so last night my bible study group was discussing the healing of the blind man in john's gospel.

ch 9 .

the man's parents were reluctant to say much on the subject.

Vanderhoven7

What do Jehovah's Witnesses think about ex-Jehovah's Witnesses?

Compilation of WTS quotations I picked up online.

“Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.” Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock p.94

“Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God *( ie: as the JW’s teach )*, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah's organization.” Reasoning From the Scriptures p.34

“Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” Watchtower Study Edition 2013 Jan 15 p.16

Apostasy Insight, Volume 1 "Apostates often seek to make others their followers. (Ac 20:30; 2Pe 2:1, 3) Such ones willfully abandoning the Christian congregation ( the watchtower organisation ) thereby become part of the “antichrist.” (1Jo 2:18, 19) As with the apostate Israelites, destruction is likewise foretold for apostates from the Christian congregation."

Watchtower 2013 Apr 15 p.11 "Strong hope enables us to resist apostates and their gangrenous "empty speeches.""

Examining the Scriptures Daily 2011 Aug 18 p.83 "Satan was the first creature to turn apostate. Modern-day apostates display characteristics similar to those of the Devil. Their mind may be poisoned by a critical attitude toward individuals in the congregations, Christian elders, or the Governing Body. Some apostates oppose the use of the divine name, Jehovah. They are not interested in learning about Jehovah or in serving him. Like their father, Satan, apostates target people of integrity. (John 8:44) No wonder servants of Jehovah avoid all contact with them!"

Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.11 "Apostates “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. Apostates use “counterfeit words.” This means that they say things that make their false ideas sound true, like criminals who make false documents look real. They try to get as many people as possible to believe their “deceptive teachings.” Peter also said that they like twisting the Scriptures. They explain Bible verses in the wrong way to make others believe their ideas. (2 Peter 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) Apostates do not care about us. If we follow them, we will leave the road to everlasting life. ... The Bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them. (1 Timothy 6:3, 4

Jehovah is like that good doctor. He clearly tells us to stay away from false teachers. We must always be determined to follow his warning. What must we do to avoid false teachers? We do not speak to them or invite them into our houses. We also do not read their books, watch them on television, read what they write on the Internet, or add our own comments about what they write on the Internet. Why are we so determined to avoid them? First of all, it is because we love “the God of truth.” So we do not want to listen to false teachings that go against the truth in God’s Word."

Watchtower 2004 Feb 15 p.28. "It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God's response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: "Before him no apostate will come in." - Job 13:16."

Watchtower 1993 October 1 p.19. "Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah."

"Have No Dealings With Apostates, ... For example, what will you do if you receive a letter or some literature, open it, and see right away that it is from an apostate? Will curiosity cause you to read it, just to see what he has to say? You may even reason: `It won't affect me; I'm too strong in the truth. And besides, if we have the truth, we have nothing to fear. The truth will stand the test.' In thinking this way, some have fed their minds upon apostate reasoning and have fallen prey to serious questioning and doubt." (Watchtower, March 15, 1986 p12)

“Avoid them,” says God’s Word. Other translations render that phrase “turn away from them,” “keep away from them,” and “stay away from them!” There is nothing ambiguous about that inspired counsel. Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. - The Watchtower 15 July 2011

Attending weddings and funerals of "non-JW friends and family", allowed but STRONGLY discouraged! (Watchtower 12/15/74 p. 766-767 & 3/15/70 p. 191-192)

Association with non-JW family and friends (Watchtower 2/15/60 p. 112)

“Despite our pain of heart, we must avoid normal contact with a disfellowshipped family member by telephone, text messages, letters, e-mails, or social media.” Watchtower 2017 Oct p.16

"Although we want to be kind to everyone, we should not become close friends with those who do not obey God. It would be wrong for one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to date someone who is not a faithful baptized servant of Jehovah. " https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/ws20150815/watch-associations-last-days/

“And all members of the congregation need to be determined to avoid the company of disfellowshipped individuals.” Watchtower 2011 Nov 15 p.5

“Today, Jehovah does not immediately execute those who violate his laws. He lovingly gives them an opportunity to repent from their unrighteous works. How would Jehovah feel, though, if the parents of an unrepentant wrongdoer kept putting Him to the test by having unnecessary association with their disfellowshipped son or daughter?” Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.32

“Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes for several reasons. … Although there might be a need for limited contact on some rare occasion to care for a necessary family matter, any such contact should be kept to a minimum.” Keep Yourself in God’s Love (2008) pp.207,208

“And all members of the congregation need to be determined to avoid the company of disfellowshipped individuals.” Watchtower 2011 Nov 15 p.5

“What if we have a relative or a close friend who is disfellowshipped? Now our loyalty is on the line, not to that person, but to God. Jehovah is watching us to see whether we will abide by his command not to have contact with anyone who is disfellowshipped.—Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.

Consider just one example of the good that can come when a family loyally upholds Jehovah’s decree not to associate with disfellowshipped relatives. A young man had been disfellowshipped for over ten years, during which time his father, mother, and four brothers “quit mixing in company” with him. At times, he tried to involve himself in their activities, but to their credit, each member of the family was steadfast in not having any contact with him. After he was reinstated, he said that he always missed the association with his family, especially at night when he was alone. But, he admitted, had the family associated with him even a little, that small dose would have satisfied him. However, because he did not receive even the slightest communication from any of his family, the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah.” Watchtower 2012 Apr 15 p.12

27

News story claims: "Jehovah’s Witnesses" are QAnon believers"

by Balaamsass2 in

i was googling the subject and came across this story.

i just had an incredible phone conversation with a long-time jw who has strong "q-anon" "sovereign citizen" beliefs.

the wife(first gen) says she is not surprised.

Vanderhoven7

I am surprised only 23% of Jehovah's Witnesses are QAnon

To be defined as a QAnon believer, a respondent had to generally agree with these three statements:

• “The government, media and financial sector are controlled by a group of Satan-worshippers

• “There is a tribulation storm coming soon that will sweep away the elites in power and restore the rightful leaders including the clergy.”

• “Because things have gotten so far off track, true American patriots may resort to violence in order to save our country.”

note changes to wording

18

Billions to die at Armageddon?

by BoogerMan in

not according to this verse:.

(mark 3:28, 29) truly i say to you that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins they commit and what blasphemies they speak.

but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever but is guilty of everlasting sin.”.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, billions

WT 1958 10/15 pp. 614-615 What Will Armageddon Mean to You

As for humans upon earth, on the side of Jehovah will be all those fully dedicated to him and who are faithfully following Jesus Christ; compared with earth’s billions these are indeed few.... On Satan’s side will be all the rest of mankind, more than 99.9 percent, even as we read: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." That includes all the governments of the world together with their supporters, the commercial, religious and social institutions.... Armageddon will be the worst thing ever to hit this earth in the history of man.

14

Watchtower Dishonesty aka Theocratic Warfare

by Vanderhoven7 in

i would like to collect as many instances of watchtower dishonesty and pretense as possible.

here is one from a bulgarian as an example of what i'm looking for.. are jehovah's witnesses disfellowshipped for receiving blood in a hospital?.

helge fauskanger writes: "if witnesses can’t convince the elders that they are utterly “repentant” for this vampiric lapse of theirs, they will be held to have disassociated themselves from the religion — even if they never said a word about wanting to leave it!

Vanderhoven7

I am having an ongoing discussion with a JW who claimed that believing their eschatology was not important. I responded by asking:

Hi Rey,

1. If Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t make a big deal about their 1914 eschatology, will they baptize someone who rejects the idea that Daniel 4 has anything to do with Christ's parousia?

2. Will Jehovah’s Witnesses baptize someone who does not believe Christ appointed anyone in 1919?

3. If they continue in their rejection of these understandings, might they still be God approved and saved because of their faith in Christ and His salvation?

His Theocratic warfare response was:

1- This is a false dichotomy.

2- Yes.

3- Yes.

The opinions you are expressing are based on fundamental misunderstandings of our perspective. And you're aware of that. I'd refer you to 1 Peter 3.

-------

Hi Rey,

I read I Peter 3. Not sure of any point you intended to make. Also I am not aware of any specific misunderstandings I have of your beliefs, so do clarify those for me. I want to be accurate in all that I write or say.

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The video above demonstrates how I see the function of the governing body and watchtower. Your suggestion that we idolize men is incorrect.

We have had many conversations, and I try to ask what you believe. I sometimes misunderstand where your stance actually is, but I hope you'll have noticed by now that when you say “no, that doesn't actually represent what I believe,” I accept you at your word and attempt to ask for clarification, rather than pushing an accusation that I know your beliefs better than you do and “preterists really believe (this or that).”

-------

Hey Rey

No matter how you look at it, your faith is in men, not the Bible.

Will Jehovah’s Witnesses offer Christian baptism to someone who believes in Christ but holds that the 8 men taking the lead in New York are not appointed by God?

-----------

I do not believe that, nor would I ever encourage anyone else to. What you are presenting is quite the opposite of what I believe, and I'm still curious why you seem so insistent to define my beliefs for me. What do you believe you might accomplish? Who are you arguing against?

---------

Hi Rey,

What don't you believe Rey?

Why not just answer my questions?

1.Will Jehovah’s Witnesses baptize someone who they know rejects the idea that Daniel 4 has anything to do with Christ's parousia?

2.Will Jehovah’s Witnesses baptize someone who they know believes the parousia has not happened yet?

3.Will Jehovah’s Witnesses baptize someone who they know believes that Jesus Christ has not yet appointed men to be ruler over his household as per Matthew 24:45–47?

4.Will Jehovah's Witnesses baptize people who they know reject that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the Faithful Slave of Matthew 24?

50

WT May 2022: The Seven Headed Beast

by raymond frantz in

.

https://youtu.be/wg9-pvxsoqm.

this is my take on may 2022 watchtower on the seven headed beast and its connection to the 4 beasts of daniel 7. what do you think?.

Vanderhoven7

44

Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW

by doasthouwilt in

i’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.

our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.

once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.

Vanderhoven7

On her current course, your girlfriend will end up being effectively shunned by her congregation whether she is disfellowshipped or not. Besides that, right now, according to her religion, she is a candidate for destruction at Armageddon. If she marries you on the sly and lies (fools the elders) about the ongoing intimacy prior to marriage, she will still be a candidate for destruction at Watchtower Armageddon.

There is no way to win in this...unless she is willing to give up her religion which at this point will not save her anyway...and disassociate herself by letter from the religion. Then she can freely marry you. If the elders want to know why she is disassociating, she can say for private reasons...and it's no longer their business anyway.

As a non-JW she will be shunned as an apostate...but then who cares.

If she is not willing to give up her religion, your best bet is to terminate your relationship for her sake. You might want to encourage her to do some independent research into what I see as a controlling and unbiblical cult.

50

WT May 2022: The Seven Headed Beast

by raymond frantz in

.

https://youtu.be/wg9-pvxsoqm.

this is my take on may 2022 watchtower on the seven headed beast and its connection to the 4 beasts of daniel 7. what do you think?.

Vanderhoven7

Relevance to anything happening now remains exactly zero.

Yes exactly that!

34

Memorial invite

by JoenB75 in

now they start inviting to their "commemorate the death of jesus" event.

it always makes me a bit sad.

i don’t think i could endure to watch it myself today.

Vanderhoven7

Wow! That was quick ffghost. Thanks!

34

Memorial invite

by JoenB75 in

now they start inviting to their "commemorate the death of jesus" event.

it always makes me a bit sad.

i don’t think i could endure to watch it myself today.

Vanderhoven7

It might be strategic to make the memorial coincide with the first in-person meeting at kingdom halls. This would assure an unusually large gathering and give the appearance that all is well with the org. Or have the halls opened already?