Hi Punky
I'd forgotten about this thread.
Yes, I do get frustrated when I look for clarity and I get evasive answers...that are really attempts to hide the more unsavory or unfounded "truths" their religion teaches.
Thanks for the empathy Punky!
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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14
Watchtower Dishonesty aka Theocratic Warfare
by Vanderhoven7 ini would like to collect as many instances of watchtower dishonesty and pretense as possible.
here is one from a bulgarian as an example of what i'm looking for.. are jehovah's witnesses disfellowshipped for receiving blood in a hospital?.
helge fauskanger writes: "if witnesses can’t convince the elders that they are utterly “repentant” for this vampiric lapse of theirs, they will be held to have disassociated themselves from the religion — even if they never said a word about wanting to leave it!
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
Clark on Matthew 24 verses 21 and 29
Verse 21
For then shall be great tribulation - No history can furnish us with a parallel to the calamities and miseries of the Jews: - rapine, murder, famine, and pestilence within: fire and sword, and all the horrors of war, without. Our Lord wept at the foresight of these calamities; and it is almost impossible for any humane person to read the relation of them in Josephus without weeping also. St. Luke, Luke 21:22, calls these the days of vengeance, that all things which were written might be fulfilled.
Verse 29
Immediately after the tribulation, etc. - Commentators generally understand this, and what follows, of the end of the world and Christ's coming to judgment: but the word immediately shows that our Lord is not speaking of any distant event, but of something immediately consequent on calamities already predicted: and that must be the destruction of Jerusalem.
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Scholar,
<<Absolutely, a 'great tribulation (without the definite article) would foreshadow 'the Great Tribulation described in the next pericope, vss. 29-31 and 'the great tribulation' Rev.7: 14>>.
No, you can't have it both ways. The tribulation (without the adjective great) of verse 29 is referent to the unrepeatable great tribulation of verse 21 which could not foreshadow a greater tribulation.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.....
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Note Rev 7:14 is also about a "great tribulation" (without the definite article)
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Jammer,
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:21
1. Are you saying verse 21 applies to the 1914 generation exclusively?
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mt 24:34
2. Are you saying verse 34 applies to the 1914 generation exclusively?
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
Scholar
Good... you agree with me that Jesus was warning people in his generation exclusively to pray that their flight not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day? Now, look at the context of these specific prayers.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The reason they were to pray these things was because the great tribulation was coming and these things would hamper their escape to regions beyond Judaea.
So what you are admitting is that the Great Tribulation took place in the first century.
You can't have it both ways.
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
Scholar
Van: And are you praying that your flight will not occur in winter or on a Sabbath day?
Scholar: No
So Scholar...are you saying that Jesus was warning people in his generation exclusively to pray that their flight not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day?
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BLONDIE - It's wonderful to hear from you again
by Listener inblondie, it's so nice to hear from you after a two year break.
i didn't notice your return 10 days ago.
i'm so excited to read all your new posts.. i hope life has treated you well over the last two years.. i think about you every now and then and others do as well.
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Vanderhoven7
Good to see Blondie and Lee back on the forum!
My bet is that Ray was ready to meet his Maker when he left us.
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
@Waton
e) the anointed generation (I don't think this is still an option)
f) the overlapping generation (but still the 1914 generation)
Interestingly, every time Jesus specified (hutos genea) this generation in all 4 gospels, it always referred to his own unbelieving generation.
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Jammer,
I have run into those that say the temple's destruction was not complete because the retaining wall is still there; so this is still future. Glad you are not one of them.
So can you identify the generation you believe Jesus was referring in Matthew 24:34?
a. the 1914 generation exclusively
b. both the 1914 generation and Jesus' generation
c. solely Jesus' generation
d, other, please identify
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Vanderhoven7
Fisherman you are not making any sense.
The context of the fleeing is not symbolic. Can you explain the so called symbolism employed in text below? What does Judaea represent? housetops, fields, clothes. with child, Sabbath day, winter. "Your flight" means that some in Christ's audience would experience the vengeance of God if they could not escape in time. Your organization acknowledges this.
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:What are you saying? What are you praying?