Posts by Vanderhoven7

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

@Slim

I don't believe that there is sufficient evidence to conclude without reasonable doubt that Trinitarian Christians in the second century conspired to remove the divine name from both the New Testament and the Septuagint....and that they were completely successful in their NT manuscript alterations and partially successful when it came to their efforts to excise the divine name from the Septuagint.

Further I don't see how the inclusion of the divine name 237 times on the New Testament would challenge the full deity of Christ...unless of course one uses these alleged conspiracies to demonstrate the unreliability of the New Testament itself. Then of course we can readily argue for Bultmann's "historical Jesus".

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

@ Slim

Regarding the issue of whether the Septuagint contained the divine name you wrote:

Can we quit talking about shadowy conspiracies? That is empty rhetoric. The fact is that the divine name was in the Septuagint in the first century but Christians replaced it with “Lord"...

If Christians planned and removed the divine name from the New Testament and did the same to the Septuagint; this was obviously done by conspiracy.

But you know I don't believe in either of these conspiracies.

"...we know happened with Septuagint."

Do We? Some feel that the presence of the Tetragrammaton in Papyrus Fouad 266 is an indication of what was in the original text, "others see this manuscript as "an archaizing and hebraizing revision of the earlier translation κύριος".

You might want to check out

https://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2014/08/22/yhwh-in-the-septuagint/

4

Have you seen this recent video

by Vanderhoven7 in

this video documentary is worth a look.. https://youtu.be/srqwnjrhh1w.

here is another one worth watching .

https://youtu.be/twtxblzlotg.

Vanderhoven7

This video documentary is worth a look.

https://youtu.be/SRqWNJrhh1w

Here is another one worth watching

https://youtu.be/twtXblzlOTg

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Riley: Thanks for sharing, " Is Jesus the name of God?

Sanchy: Exactly!

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

GB

Do you believe Jesus made God's name known by incessantly repeating the correct syllables thereof? The Tetragrammaton was already known and appeared close to 7000 times in the Hebrew scriptures. Or did Jesus manifest God's name by revealing His character, His nature, His intentions, His love, .i.e., His true identity.... by His words and works of love and grace. Jesus manifested His person, not by repeating Yahovah, Yahweh or Yaho a hundred times a day so that people would be sure to pronounce the name correctly.

What further evidence do you need to see that pronouncing the correct syllables of God's name is unimportant. The fact that you do not see the divine name on the lips of Jesus or His apostles once in the reliable New Testament should make that clear.

Jesus revealed God's intent or desire for intimacy with us, not syllables. His desire is that His children know Him as Father, not Jehovah, Yahweh or Yaho..... or you would find the name of Yaho 7000 times in the New Testament as well.

I like the following quotation that I recently picked up.

"The name which Jesus manifested - that is to say, manifested as that not yet manifested before His advent - cannot be those names that were known already in the Old Testament - Yahve, Adonai, El etc. - but this name newly and uniquely manifested is the "Father".

Jesus uniquely and unprecedentedly in history invested humans with authority to become God's children (John 1:12), and thus to have God as Father. More precisely, He is the unique and only Revelator of God whom nobody has seen (John 1:18), and whom nobody can either access without Him (John 14:16) or know without Him (Matthew 11:27); while He Himself knows the Father as He is known by the Latter (John 1:15), thus is equal to Him; in virtue of this equality, He is the only natural and co-eternal Son of the Father, the Latter's co-Creator of the universe. And this natural Son authorises also humans to participate in His and the Father's eternal the divine life, by making them His brothers and sisters by adoption (John 20:17).

Thus, the new name of God, the "Father", denotes a new ontological condition of humanity with reference to its creator God, a new and unprecedented degree of intimacy of humanity with God, for by now, through authorization of the Son, humans also get access to divine life by becoming partakers of it to the fullest possible way; exactly this intimate partaking of divine life is called sonship, and exactly by virtue of this God is revealed as the "Father" of such "sons" and "daughters"

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

GB,

If the New Testament is reliable, the name of Jesus is emphasized more than the name Jehovah in the New Testament.

If the New Testament is not reliable, and the name Jehovah was completely removed from all ancient manuscripts, God did not preserve His word.

My take, is that God has preserved His word and the New Testament is reliable.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

URL copied on this oldie. Thanks for sharing.

22

JW's are the SAME as other Christians....

by BoogerMan in

...they condemn/attack those whose beliefs/opinions/interpretations of scriptures differ from theirs.. various scriptures reveal to christians that the judging of mankind will be done by christ jesus: .

john 5:22,28,29, acts 10:42, acts 17:31, romans 14:9, 2 cor.

5:10, 2 tim.

Vanderhoven7

I like your style SB!

I'm Trinitarian, Millennial, Arminianism Gifts of the Spirit,. One Favorite preacher - the late Adrian Rogers

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Hi Slim,

"Conspiracy theory? That seems to be the go to, discrediting label these days, doesn’t it?"

That the divine name was in the earliest manuscripts of the New Testament is a theory...since it does not appear in one of the thousands of ancient manuscripts. Now if a bunch of Trinitarians or some other group in the second century plotted to and removed the divine name from all existing manuscripts that would certainly qualify as a conspiracy. So conspiracy theory readily fits the bill.

So the fact is that there is no proof the the divine name was in any ancient Greek NT manuscript and there is no proof of a conspiracy to remove the name. So my take is that a real conspiracy took place in the offices at headquarters in Brooklyn when a group of men made it their aim to insert the divine name into the Greek NT 237 times to fit their theology where the evidence says it does not belong, rendering the New Testament unreliable.

JWfacts has this to say on the subject:

Several available manuscripts date back to this period. P47 dates prior to 300 A.D. and contains four uses of Kyrios from Revelation that the NWT translates as Jehovah. P66 dates from around 200 A.D. from John (written in 98 A.D) and contains five occurrences of Lord that appear in the NWT as Jehovah. Some manuscripts go back to within 25 years of John's writings, yet none contains YHWH.

Evidence it did not Appear

There is much evidence that YHWH never appeared in the New Testament. Most obvious is the absence of YHWH in any of the 5,000 discovered Greek New Testament manuscripts.

Important evidence is also contained in the writings of the early Christians. These are referred to as the Apostolic Fathers and Ante Nicene Fathers who wrote from the times of the Apostles to the third century. This includes Polycarp, who studied with the Apostle John and Justin Martyr who lived from 110 to 165 A.D. Their extensive writings are a source of information on the early Church, including the formulation of the Trinity doctrine and the development of the Bible Canon. Yet in their writings there is no discussion about the removal of God's name from the Scriptures. If a global conspiracy existed to remove YHWH from the all New Testament manuscripts debate most certainly would have occurred between these writers.

Furthermore, their works do not contain YHWH when quoting from New Testament Scriptures. For example, in Against Heresies, Irenaeus quotes Matthew 1:20; 4:10 and Romans 11:34, each time using the word Lord instead of Jehovah. Clement, mentioned at Philippians 4:3, wrote the Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians between 75 and 110 A.D. and used Kyrios when quoting from the Old Testament. (See 1 Clement 13:5 which quotes Ezekiel 33:11.)

Justin Martyr converted to Christianity around 150 A.D., a mere 50 years after the Bible was completed. He had access to early copies of the New Testament yet in The Second Apology, Chapter VI he wrote;

"But to the Father of all, who is unbegotten, there is no name given. For by whatever name He be called, He has as His elder the person who gives Him the name. But these words, Father, and God, and Creator, and Lord, and Master, are not names, but appellations derived from His good deeds and functions."

Justin Martyr shows that Christians referred to the Father by appellations, but not a name such as Jehovah.

22

JW's are the SAME as other Christians....

by BoogerMan in

...they condemn/attack those whose beliefs/opinions/interpretations of scriptures differ from theirs.. various scriptures reveal to christians that the judging of mankind will be done by christ jesus: .

john 5:22,28,29, acts 10:42, acts 17:31, romans 14:9, 2 cor.

5:10, 2 tim.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Boogerman

I don't know of any religion which is 100% doctrinally correct.

But to me, some religions are definitely worse than others. Any religion which denies adherents a personal and or a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, i.e., preaches another Jesus and another gospel, would be the ones to be avoided most.