Posts by Vanderhoven7

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Thanks for sharing your soteriological beliefs Wonderment.

Do you see the Great Crowd as being New Covenant, heaven bound Christians?

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

Where in scripture do you find Christians who are not in the New Covenant, not entitled to partake of the emblems of Christ's death, not born of the Spirit and bereft of a heavenly hope?

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Hi Wonderment.

I'm going to have to reread your last post...too much to absorb let alone to respond to. I agree with so much of what you said...but I still wonder where you stand regarding faith in God and Christ.

Of course you are free to answer or ignore my questions. But I'd like to know:

1. Do you believe the Bible is God's word?

2. Do you considered yourself a Christian?

3. If yes to question 2, what do you belive makes a person right (justified) with God?

27

Resuming door to door September 1st

by Mikejw in

gb worried about not enough coming to in person meetings.

what are they going to be like when they realise not only jdubs don’t want to go to in person meetings but they really don’t want to go back on the min.

zoom has so much more appeal for rather than meetings or door to door.

Vanderhoven7

Hope field service plans fail miserably

https://youtu.be/P9B0zSkSGGA

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Hi Wonderment,

Thanks for sharing.

BTW, spoken like a true WTS apologist.

Do you agree with the WTS scholars who render "proskyneo" in the NT as "do obeisance" when applied to the Son but "worship" when applied to the Father?

So I gather you do not worship the Lord Jesus Christ. Now the question is,

Do you have a personal relationship with Michael aka Jesus? If yes; do you also have a personal relationship with the angel Gabriel?

Can someone legitimately say they have a relationship with someone they have never communicated with?

Can someone legitimately say they know (ginosko) someone they have never communicated with?

If you claim that you have a relationship with Jesus would you describe your relationship?

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

"From a scriptural point of view it would indeed to wrong for anyone to worship Adam instead of God, but interestingly some of NT writers say that Jesus (whom Paul says is the second Adam) should be worshiped)."

Really, I don't see that there is irony involved in what some NT writers affirm. The first Adam did not create all things, nor did he give up equality with God and humble himself by taking up human flesh and dwelling among us; nor did he walk the Via Dolorosa or endure the cross; nor does all power in earth and heaven belong to him, nor does he have a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Actually, I don't see how people who do not worship Jesus can legitimately say they know him.

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Hi DJW

This thread is not particularly about the Trinity, but there does seem to be considerable evidence that Jesus is Jehovah when comparing OT passages with passages in the NT.

Randal Waters cites a few.

[1] Hebrews 1:10 is a quotation of the LXX version of Ps. 102:25. The Psalm is unquestionably speaking of Jehovah, yet the writer of Hebrews applies it to Christ! Knowing this, the New World Translating Committee broke their own rules and refused to insert "Jehovah" into Hebrews 1:10. *2

[2] 1 Peter 3:14,15 is a quote from Isa. 8:12,13, which obviously contained the tetragram in the Hebrew text and referred to "sanctifying Jehovah in our hearts." Yet, Peter paraphrases it and applies it directly to Christ, saying that we are to sanctify CHRIST in our hearts! Again, their Translating Committee has shown bias in not following their own rules. Even the footnote in the Kingdom Interlinear shows that many of the modern Hebrew Bibles have "Jehovah" in 1 Peter 3:15. But since that would identify Christ with Jehovah, the Translating Committee could not face up to it.

[3] Acts 2:21 quotes from a prophecy in Joel 2:2832 that contained the tetragram in the Hebrew text, saying, "Whoever calls upon the name of Jehovah will be delivered." Yet Peter quotes it and applies it to Jesus in Acts 2:21, as verse 38 says, "And Peter said to them, `Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

Additionally, the name of Jesus takes great precedence over "Jehovah" in the New Testament. Just in the book of Acts alone, note the overwhelming importance of the name of Christ, with no mention of the covenant name of God:

Men healed in the Name	Acts 3:6,16; 4:10,30
Salvation in the Name	Acts 4:12; 10:43; 22:16
Baptism in the Name	Acts 2:38; 8:16
Forgiveness through the Name	Acts 10:43
Teaching and preaching in the Name	Acts 8:12; 4:18; 5:28
Calling upon the Name	Acts 2:21; 9:14,21
Speaking in the Name	Acts 4:17; 9:27,29
Suffering for the name	Acts 9:16; 15:26; 5:41
Bearing the Name before the nations	Acts 9:15
Paul once opposed the Name	Acts 26:9
Called or designated by the Name	Acts 11:26

The New Testament record shows that the Name of Jesus holds primary importance, rather than the covenant Name of Jehovah. This is in line with Hebrews 1:1,2 where it is said that God, though speaking through his covenant people in times past, is now speaking through the Son; who is the exact representation of the Father (but not the Father). Note also other NT texts that speak of the Name of Jesus as being the most important name there is: Eph. 1:20,21; Phil. 2:9; 2 Thess. 1:12; 1 Cor. 1:2; Col. 3:17; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:3, 13. Jesus also spoke of the importance of his name in passages such as: Mt. 7:22; 10:22; 12:1521; 18:5,20; 19:29; 24:9; 28:19,20 (just to cite Matthew).

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Vanderhoven7

Here is one from the ASV

Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah, and Satan standing at his right hand to be his adversary.

Zec 3:2 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Jehovah rebuke thee, O Satan; yea, Jehovah that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

This from CARM

The heavens are the work of your hands

“Hear my prayer, O Lord! And let my cry for help come to You. Do not hide Your face from me in the day of my distress; Incline Your ear to me,” (Psalm 102:1-2).

It goes on to declare important truths about Jehovah:

“But You, O Lord, abide forever, And Your name to all generations,” (Psalm 102:12).

“So the nations will fear the name of the Lord And all the kings of the earth Your glory. For the Lord has built up Zion; He has appeared in His glory. He has regarded the prayer of the destitute and has not despised their prayer,” (Psalm 102:15-17).

And it speaks of Jehovah’s future kingdom reign over all the peoples of the Earth:

“This will be written for the generation to come, that a people yet to be created may praise the Lord. For He looked down from His holy height; From heaven the Lord gazed upon the earth, to hear the groaning of the prisoner, to set free those who were doomed to death, that men may tell of the name of the Lord in Zion and His praise in Jerusalem, when the peoples are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve the Lord,” (Psalm 102:18-22).

Throughout this chapter, the word here translated “Lord” is the name “YHWH” or “Jehovah.” The Psalm closes by declaring of Him:

“Of old, You founded the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Even they will perish, but You endure; And all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing, You will change them and they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end. The children of Your servants will continue, And their descendants will be established before You,” (Psalm 102:25-28).

Such lofty proclamations are very specific to Jehovah and could not be applied to any other being. The Christian and the Jehovah’s Witness can agree that this is who Jehovah is, and there is none other. When we turn to the New Testament, however, we see something incredible. The author of the Book of Hebrews writes:

“But of the Son, He says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness above Your companions.’ And, ‘You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands; They will perish, but You remain; And they all will become old like a garment, And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end,’” (Hebrews 1:8-12).

The author quotes two Psalms and says that they were talking about the Son. Both of them are powerful testimonies of Christ’s deity, yet for our purposes here, the second is the most important. Notice, again, that verses 10-12 cite the passage:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands; They will perish, but You remain; And they all will become old like a garment, And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end.”

He is quoting here from Psalm 102, a prayer to Jehovah by name that could not be talking to or about any other being. The citation even addresses the son as the “Lord.” Again, throughout the Psalm, in the Hebrew, the word “Lord” is the name “YHWH” or “Jehovah.” The Book of Hebrews thus plainly identifies Jesus as Jehovah.

22

JW's are the SAME as other Christians....

by BoogerMan in

...they condemn/attack those whose beliefs/opinions/interpretations of scriptures differ from theirs.. various scriptures reveal to christians that the judging of mankind will be done by christ jesus: .

john 5:22,28,29, acts 10:42, acts 17:31, romans 14:9, 2 cor.

5:10, 2 tim.

Vanderhoven7

Right, only a few groups of so-called Christians are dangerous cults.

You should know you are in the wrong religion when your sister has not talked to you for the past 25 years.

27

Resuming door to door September 1st

by Mikejw in

gb worried about not enough coming to in person meetings.

what are they going to be like when they realise not only jdubs don’t want to go to in person meetings but they really don’t want to go back on the min.

zoom has so much more appeal for rather than meetings or door to door.

Vanderhoven7

I'll be happy if they come by my house. I use to go looking for them in my area on Saturday mornings before Covid. Had quite a few good conversations.