Posts by Vanderhoven7

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

For those interested:

A summary of biblical and secular evidence for Jerusalem's destruction in 587 BC can be found in Jack Finegan’s Handbook of Biblical Chronology: Principles of Time Reckoning in the Ancient World and Problems of Chronology in the Bible (Revised Edition, Hendrickson Publishers, 1998).

A classic work on biblical chronology is Edwin R. Thiele’s The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings (New Revised Edition, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1994; Zondervan Publishing House, 1983; various editions back to 1951).

A comprehensive debunking of the Society’s scriptural claims, along with some secular material, is available at “Jeffro’s 607 pages.” This includes detailed debunkings of recent Watchtower articles:

http://jeffro77.wordpress.com/

Scholar Rodger Young gives proof of 587 BCE as the date of Jerusalem’s destruction:

http://www.galaxie.com/article/jets47-1-03

http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf

http://www.rcyoung.org/papers.html

Seventh-Day Adventist scholar Ross E. Winkle offers these articles:

“Jeremiah’s Seventy Years For Babylon: A Reassessment. Part I: The Scriptural Data”:

http://www.auss.info/auss_publication_file.php?pub_id=755

“Jeremiah’s Seventy Years For Babylon: A Reassessment. Part II: The Historical Data”:

http://www.auss.info/auss_publication_file.php?pub_id=762&journal=1&type=pdf

Another look at the scriptural and secular evidence against Watchtower chronology is the article “Notes on the Gentile Times and 1914”:

http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/part-1-summary.html

Another debunking is: “Refutation of Appendix in Let Your Kingdom Come”:

http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/refutation-of-appendix-in-let-your.html

12

I need your help to get out

by ElMartin in

i'm using google translate, my native language is spanish .

hola, esta es mi primera publicación en este sitio.

tengo 22 años, me dediqué a jehová y lo que creo que fue la organización de él a los 18 años.. ai am currently inactive in spiritual activities, which led me to wonder and question if the watchtower has the truth.

Vanderhoven7

I believe the Spanish version of JWfacts can be found here

https://jwfacts-com.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=es&_x_tr_hl=en

Yes and be careful to avoid spilling your doubts to elders. You don't want to end up being called an apostate and rejected by family members unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Fading is the way to go.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

The Bible refutes Watchtower teaching that Christ became king in 1914.

Biblically speaking, Jesus was enthroned immediately after His ascension. People in the first century were being transferred into Christ's kingdom. As Paul writes in Colossians 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col.1:13-14

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

Gentile Times Reconsidered ....does not debunk 607

Watchtower does not debunk 587

Why do you think that not a single secular archeologist supports 607?

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

An e-version of "Gentile Times Reconsidered" is available at:

https://archive.org/details/the-gentile-times-reconsidered/page/10/mode/2up

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

Fisherman

Try

https://youtu.be/9a0YwF1blwA

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

1914 speculation only makes sense to the indoctrinated.

JW Insider has this to say...

"Here are several points related to 1914 that appear problematic from a Scriptural point of view:

All evidence shows the 1914 date is wrong when trying to base it on the destruction of Jerusalem. (Daniel 1:1; 2 Chron 36:1-22; Jer 25:8-12; Zech 1:12, 7:4; Ezra 3:10-13)
Paul said that Jesus sat at God's right hand in the first century and that he already began ruling as king at that time. (1 Cor 15:25)
Jesus said not to be fooled by the idea that wars and rumors of wars would be the start of a "sign" (Matt 24:4,5)
Jesus said that the "parousia" would be as visible as lightning (Matt 24:27). He spoke against people who might say he had returned but was currently not visible. (Matt 24:23-26)
Jesus said that his "parousia" would come as a surprise to the faithful, not that they would discern the time of the parousia decades in advance. (Matt 24:36-42)
Jesus said that the kingdom would not be indicated by "signs" (Luke 17:20, almost any translation except NWT in this case)
The "synteleia" (end of all things together) refers to a concluding event, not an extended period of time (Matt 28:20)
Jesus was already called ruler, King and even "King of Kings" in the first century. (1 Tim 6:15, Heb 7:2,17; Rev 1:5; 17:14)
Wicked, beastly King Nebuchadnezzar's insanity and humiliation does not represent Jesus as the "lowliest one of mankind." (Heb 1:5,6; 2:10,11; Daniel 4:23-25; cf. Heb 2:7; 1 Pet 3:17,18)
The demise of a Gentile kingdom cannot rightly represent the time of the rise of the Gentile kingdoms (Daniel 4:26,27)
The Gentile kings did not meet their demise in 1914. (Rev 2:25,26)
The time assigned to the Gentile Times that Jesus spoke about in Luke 21:24 is already given as 3.5 times, not 7 times (Revelation 11:2,3)
The Devil was already brought down from "heaven" in the first century. (1 John 2:14,15; 1 Pet 5:8; Luke 10:18; Heb 2:14)
The Bible says that the "last days" began in the first century. (Acts 2:14-20; 2 Tim 3:1-17; 1 Peter 3:3-5; Heb 1:2, almost any translation except NWT in this case.)

https://youtu.be/ITnZMCWnwZk

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

Fisherman

1914 is only written in the minds of Jehovah's Witnesses as was 1874. Jesus second presence did not occur in 1874 and Armageddon did not occur in 1914, or 1918 or 1925, or 1975 or before the end of the 20th century.

6

Why Did the Apostles Preach the Ministry of Reconciliation Instead of Mt. 24: 14 ...Like JW's Do?

by Sea Breeze in

and all things are of god, who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that god was in christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

- 2 cor.

5: 18. then fourteen years after i went up again to jerusalem with barnabas, and took titus with me also.

Vanderhoven7

The gospel proclaimed by the WTS is not even close to Paul's gospel. One JW (Dan) wrote that he was saved after the challenge. I wrote back the following:

Dan, I'll tell you what you have and that is the empty promise of 8 men in New York that you MIGHT survive Armageddon if you stay in close association with them and believe everything they teach and obey everything they say. You might, maybe…so keep working hard for the reward of a chance to earn your way to the new earth.

But if you die before the tribulation, these men guarantee you a resurrection and a chance to continue working for 1000 years to acquire eternal life.

This is a man-made heretical gospel

And you believe these men and put your faith in them.

26

ARMAGEDDON

by Lost in the fog in

can i ask please especially for all who are pomo?.

we've taken a decision similar to revelation 18:4 to get out of the watchtower and not share in its sins.. how many of you still believe that god will one day terminate the world's many systems by means of an armageddon?.

Vanderhoven7

Nope