Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  19

  First post here. Inactive since January, making it permanent. Here is my intro

  by madisoncembre in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  new poster to this site.

  i've started blogging and would like to share my experiences with you.

  bear with me as i am completely new to this.

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  Vanderhoven7

  No way. You didn't move out so he could move in.
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  169

  Rich Man and Lazarus

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have never understood the watchtower's explanation of the rich man and lazarus story jesus told in luke 16. of course, they don't believe jesus is talking about what happens in an "afterlife" after people die.. but from the watchtower's point of view:.

  1. who are the five brothers?.

  2. why can't lazarus go witness to them?

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  Vanderhoven7

  AQ

  Yes, death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire where both will be destroyed eternally. No more death and no more hell. Wonderful - No?
• 
  169

  Rich Man and Lazarus

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have never understood the watchtower's explanation of the rich man and lazarus story jesus told in luke 16. of course, they don't believe jesus is talking about what happens in an "afterlife" after people die.. but from the watchtower's point of view:.

  1. who are the five brothers?.

  2. why can't lazarus go witness to them?

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  Vanderhoven7

  From my perspective both "The Dishonest Steward" and :The Rich Man and Lazarus" accounts are satirical. They wete designed to undermine Pharisaic authority in the eyes of the common people in the audience.

  In order to establish that the literary form of both narratives are satires, or more particularly, parodies, there must be clear evidence that:

  a. A common or "well known story line is being imitated".

  b. irony is employed; that the story’s outcome is changed such that there is clear “incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the expected result”

  c. the unexpected results "highlight human stupidity" or corruption.

  d. "a comic end is served", the purpose of which is to cause listeners "to detach sympathies from certain people (groups), to judge their actions and to see the absurdity in their behavior…

  As it happens, The Dishonest Steward (Pharisees) get divine congratulations and the rich man (Pharisees) end up in their own version of hell in the afterlife.

  It is clear why the Pharisees would not appreciate these accounts.

  Check out my YT video

  https://youtu.be/2Y-p9Ol_Shs

  
  
• 
  7

  What do the Org. And the Catholic Church have in Common?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses are like the pope is to the catholic church.

  they too claim to be god’s mouthpiece or the voice of jesus.

  they also demand unquestioning obedience for their members salvation.

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  Vanderhoven7

  "The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses are like the Pope is to the Catholic Church. They too claim to be God’s mouthpiece or the voice of Jesus. They also demand unquestioning obedience for their members salvation. They both claim to be the one true religion or church. While the Pope wears certain garb the governing body leaders wear expensive suits with expensive jewelry/pinky rings. Gb have no charity for the poor and needy but live in a commune where all their needs are met. They even get personal donations from their members although they supposedly take a vow of poverty. They live like the Pope in many ways." Nadia Viotto

  Here are some similarities between the two. Link below.

  1. Centralized World-wide church government from which all official doctrine comes. The Pope and the Governing body.
  2. A city where world headquarters permanently resides: Rome, Italy and Brooklyn, NY, USA (Now Tuxedo NY)
  3. Authority of this "world organization" is not to be questioned.
  4. Both consider God to be the head of the world organization.
  5. Both organizations are "spirit directed" by God.
  6. A simple definition of both is as follows: "Definition of a Catholic/Jw: 'Someone who accepts Vatican/Watchtower organization as God's visible spirit-directed theocratic organization upon the earth.
  7. Both have official yearly meetings of the world leaders.
  8. The official doctrines that have changed dramatically over time.
  9. Both claim "new light" or progressive revelation to explain doctrinal changes.
  10. Both teach the organization is supreme over the Bible rather than the Bible being supreme over the organization.
  11. The average members are told by the organization that they cannot understand the Bible without the help of the official organization.
  12. Both discourage independent thinking from the world organization.
  13. Both continue to blindly follow the organization in spite of major doctrinal changes, reversals and flip-flops.
  14. Both "explain away" doctrinal changes, reversals and flip-flops by claiming "new light".
  15. Both view every other church as heretical and false.
  16. No salvation outside of their organization.
  17. The word of the organization is unquestionably final.
  18. Interpreting the Bible is the sole right of the organization.
  19. Both make claims that because of their size, growth, activity, they must have the truth.
  20. Both have authoritative writings in addition to the Bible. Creeds, catechisms and the watchtower.
  21. Both teach that you cannot understand the Bible unless you compare the Bible with their official "authoritative writings" Creeds and Watchtower.
  22. Both have an official clergy system with special privileges and rights the common member does not have. Priests, elders, overseers and the Governing body.
  23. Both have system of monasteries where "most holy and dedicated" selflessly pledge to do the "work for God" without any material rewards. No children are allowed in both. Catholic = monasteries; JW = Bethel
  24. Both cover up sexual molestation between men and children. We know that pedophilia can happen anywhere, schools, sports teams and churches. Covering up such acts is wrong. The CBC program, "The Fifth Estate" aired a TV program on Sept 12, 2003 documenting how sexual abuse is routinely covered up in the Kingdom Hall’s of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Catholic Church has a similar history of covering up sexual abuse cases. Various legal loop holes and religious bullying to not tell people of pedophilia leads people to spend decades in fear of telling others of being abused.
  25. “Jehovah” is the proper name of God (at least according to 1914 Catholic Encyclopedia. Consider the fact the terms was translated in Spanish by a Catholic monk! It is of note however modern Catholic Bibles like the Jerusalem Bible use the now preferred way “Yahweh.”
  26. Both are active about their faith in the community. Jehovah’s Witnesses go door-to-door, Catholics have various organizations like “Catholic youth week,” the pope visits other countries on a regular basis to “spread the Catholic faith.” It is to be noted members on the Governing Body also do this! Their ways of preaching are remarkably different, but both have a strong presence in the community.
  27. Too much emphasis is put on works and teach the death for Christ insufficient.
  28. Have a lot of wealth and power over their rank and file.
  29. They shun people who leave their faith. However Jw’s go as far as to kick their own children out of their homes into the street and won’t answer a phone call from their child.
  30. Jehovah’s Witnesses have had shares in a navy company, Rand Cam. That makes weapons of defense! So maybe they aren’t out killing people on the fields, but they own shares in a company that does! They have blood on their hands. As well as their unbiblical blood doctrine that has had numerous flip flops. They dictate the life and death of their members making themselves G.O.D (guardians of doctrine)
  31. Major church hierarchy.
  32. Pharisee-like with unbiblical rules.
  33. Both hand out religious literature in the street.
  34. Both have had significant decreases in membership in Western countries.
  35. Conscience involving a lot of activities in faith. Both churches have a lot of rules, but never do in practice.
  36. Both organizations have big publishing companies.
  37. Both are militant and indoctrinating about them being the “first church” and to disobey the organization is to disobey God!
  38. The JW's use to be a part of the UN as an NGO member before they were caught out.
  39. Both avoid using the Biblical term "Christian," and rather be known by their respective names: Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics.

  LINK BETWEEN JW's and CATHOLICS –– Many Jehovah's Witnesses are ex-Catholics!

  Similarities between Catholics and JW's

  

  

  
  
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  19

  First post here. Inactive since January, making it permanent. Here is my intro

  by madisoncembre in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  new poster to this site.

  i've started blogging and would like to share my experiences with you.

  bear with me as i am completely new to this.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Welcome to the forum Madison.

  Thank you for sharing your situation.

  You did the right thing when you left John. I hope you have photos or some sort of documentation of the abuse you experienced. This will help if John and his dad threaten, out of spite, to take you to court for custody of the girls. I'm sure you are also expecting pressure from the elders to return despite the abuse.

  Hoping and praying that things turn out well for you.
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  20

  JWs don't consider older WT as revelant

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am relating this happening.

  i shared some thoughts from the 1989 question from readers concerning christ being mediator between god and man ( the wt spinning that he isn't ) and also the paragraph in that same article that plainly says: clearly, then the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind.

  it is a carefully arranged legal provision involving god and anointed christians.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Enough

  I would respond

  So you acknowledge that this is what your organization taught in 1989 but now you are saying that this doctrine has changed.

  Can you provide me a quotation from your literature that demonstrates that this teaching has changed? If not, I can't accept that this fundamental doctrine has changed.

  If you say now that Jesus shed his blood for all then he shed his blood for you. So do you partake of the symbol of his blood at the memorial?

  Why not? His blood was shed for the forgiveness of sin. Have your sins been forgiven by that blood? ??? Or does your death pay for all your sins so that you really don't need the blood of the New Covenant to be applied to your life?

  If you are not in the New Covenant, under which Covenant are your sins forgiven?
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  2

  AI on Biblical Sheep

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  my son sean, who is a pastor, decided to ask ai.. "who does the bible consider sheep and how does an individual become a sheep?".

  turns out that wt non-leaders should consult ai instead of relying on their writing department.. ai writes:.

  "in the bible, sheep are often used as a metaphor for followers of god or believers.

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  Vanderhoven7

  @ Smiddy

  It was a fun exercise. Next time we should ask AI who the biblical "other sheep" are to see if we are pointed to followers of a religion with headquarters in New York.
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  2

  AI on Biblical Sheep

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  my son sean, who is a pastor, decided to ask ai.. "who does the bible consider sheep and how does an individual become a sheep?".

  turns out that wt non-leaders should consult ai instead of relying on their writing department.. ai writes:.

  "in the bible, sheep are often used as a metaphor for followers of god or believers.

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  Vanderhoven7

  My Son Sean, who is a pastor, decided to ask AI.

  "Who does the Bible consider sheep and how does an individual become a sheep?"

  Turns out that WT non-leaders should consult AI instead of relying on their writing department.

  AI writes:

  "In the Bible, sheep are often used as a metaphor for followers of God or believers. The term is used to describe individuals who have placed their faith in God and are willing to follow His commands.

  In the New Testament, Jesus frequently referred to himself as the Good Shepherd, and his followers as his sheep. For example, in John 10:27-28, Jesus says, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." This passage suggests that those who listen to Jesus and follow him are considered his sheep and will receive eternal life.

  To become a sheep in the biblical sense, one must first recognize their need for a savior and put their faith in Jesus Christ. This involves acknowledging that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins, and committing to follow him as Lord and Savior. Once an individual makes this decision, they become part of the family of God, and are considered one of His sheep. This is a lifelong commitment to follow Christ and obey His commands, which is the mark of a true believer.

  Got any other evidence that AI knows better than Watchtower?
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  12

  A new Tony Morris thread: Question

  by XBEHERE in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i am not trying to hijack the already well commented on thread on this subject .

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5068920948523008/breaking-news-anthony-morris-iii-no-longer-serving-on-governing-body.

  however i do have a question: for pimo's, pimq's, and those who still go to meetings in person fairly regularly... is anyone still talking about this?

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  Vanderhoven7

  https://youtu.be/rtJy7J5m7z4
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  5

  anyone thinking it good you left the JW

  by enoughisenough in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  a jw friend and i used to frequent a local restaurant together so often that if one of us showed up the waiter/owner would ask if the other was coming as well.

  today i went there for lunch.

  he asked if ??

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  Vanderhoven7

  Kudos to your cousin!