my take is: 1914 is not biblical since no dates are in the bible.
a hodgepodge of scriptures are ingeniously linked together; then stir in about 9 creative assumptions to arrive at a speculative theory on which to base wts authority.. nathan knorr to fred franz.
"there are some things that i know.
@Fisherman
For one thing, it had to be before the destruction of the temple.
Daniel 9:26 KJV — And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
even though i'm disfellowshiped ( & i belive wrongfully so).
i still belive this is the truth.
i have been d'f for about 8 months now and working on reinstatement.
Hi Sue,
Thank you for being willing to open up a can of worms with your question. I believe Christianity is the one true faith and is made up of all Spirit begotten children of God wherever they may be or fellowship. God knows those who are His.
I believe the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses has some truth, but much error. In fact, every unique belief and teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is not in the Bible. Here is a list for you.
UNIQUE UNBIBLICAL BELIEFS OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
a. the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is the one true religion
b. all other churches are part of Satan's organization, Babylon the Great, defined by the Watchtower Society as part of “the world empire of false religion”.
c. God is soon going to destroy the Whore of Revelation 18 at Armageddon, which includes all churches of Christendom, Catholic and Protestant, as well as all their followers and supporters.
d. with rare exceptions, only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon. The billions who perish at Armageddon will be forever destroyed without any hope of a resurrection.
e. doctrinal unity at all costs. they are to accept every official teaching that comes down from Watchtower headquarters and if they, as adults, vocalize any disagreement and persist in it, will be disfellowshipped and shunned by friends and family.
f. proper disfellowshipping offenses include ongoing unrepentant celebration of birthdays including Christ's birthday, unrepentant acceptance of blood transfusions, refusal to quit smoking and willing ongoing association with a known disfellowshipped or disassociated person or persons.
g. the 9 member Governing Body serving at Warwick New York headquarters represent the channel of truth for mankind. Together they are the Faithful and Wise Servant spoken of in Matthew 24:45-47.
h. that in October 1914 Jesus second coming occurred invisibly; he then became king and from 1914 on has been ruling in the heavens giving his attention to the earth which initially involved the examination of the churches of Christendom. The last generation that Jesus said surely would not pass away...began in 1914. (note: the youngest of the 1914 generation i.e.,babies born in 1914, are 107 years old today)
i. in the spring of 1918 the apostle Peter and all anointed ones who died (less than 145,000) were raised to heavenly life. The rest of mankind who are not part of the 144,000, good and bad, remain in the grave until the second resurrection which will take place soon.
j. in the fall of 1918, Jesus finished examining the churches and rejected all of them.
k. early in 1919, Jesus found a group of faithful Bible Student leaders serving at Brooklyn New York and appointed them to exclusively channel his truth to the nations via the publishing company they were using (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania). This group of men was the original Faithful Slave of Matthew 24, whose office, mandate and ability to interpret the scriptures accurately was passed down to all subsequent Watchtower leaders. These leaders are not perfect and they can err in doctrine or organizational instruction, but they must be believed and obeyed nonetheless.
l. that prior to the 20th century (from AD 33 to 1900) there were less than 145,000 faithful Christians that ever existed. (Note: this means that the millions who perished as martyrs before the twentieth century were not real but only professed Christians in the Watchtower Society's eyes).
m. a new group of non-anointed Christians began being called early in the 20th century; today there are 8.5 million of these Christians in the world. These are not born-again; they do not have a heavenly hope; they are not in the New Covenant and therefore are not entitled to partake of the bread and the wine symbolizing Jesus' death; they do not have eternal life, the indwelling Holy Spirit or the imputation of Christ's righteousness. They will only have a chance to earn eternal life if they survive Armageddon and serve God during the 1000 year millennium and prove themselves faithful to the end.
And Sue, any JW expressing views contrary to these extra-biblical teachings will be thrown under the bus.
the belief in the messiah, which has lived in the collective consciousness of humanity since ancient times, became completely obscured among the gentiles, and only remained with the jewish people, who were later chosen by god, as the prophecies of the prophets kept it alive.
there was only one great promise in the old testament from god, which awaited fulfillment!
only one great desire was there in the old testament on the part of man, longing for satisfaction.
This is one post that merits its length. Well written AQ.
Yes, critical was the timing of the Messiah's coming and death which was to precede the temple's destruction.
Daniel 9:26 KJV — "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary..."
i will risk showing my ignorance but i had some questioning thoughts in my head lately...maybe those more scholarly than me have insight.
jw teach that the anointed who now die go immediately to heaven.
when lazarus had died martha said she knew he would rise on the last day.
j. arden writes.
first of all an apostate is literally just someone who left.
most jws are technically apostates from the religions they were raised in.
One good love song deserves another
j. arden writes.
first of all an apostate is literally just someone who left.
most jws are technically apostates from the religions they were raised in.
True for many VI
hi i want to tell my story and get advice.
i'm a single sister ( in usa) that has been baptized for 20 years.
i came from the world, so did not grow up in the truth and i have no family in the truth -- i am alone.. last year i met a brother & we did have premarital sex while we were dating.
Because a religion has some truth, does not mean they are the truth. You will find more genuine love at home than you will at the hall.
hi i want to tell my story and get advice.
i'm a single sister ( in usa) that has been baptized for 20 years.
i came from the world, so did not grow up in the truth and i have no family in the truth -- i am alone.. last year i met a brother & we did have premarital sex while we were dating.
Hi Sue,
I don't understand why you say you lost your relationship with Jehovah. Does the unkind and unChristian decision of 3 or 100 men affect how God sees you?
You may have lost your relationship with the organization, but hopefully that will serve to enhance your relationship with Jehovah and His Son Jesus who will never leave you or forsake you as long as the world stands.
I am thankful that your parents are not JWs or they would have to shun you as well. It's no wonder many disfellowshipped JWs end up committing suicide.
Look up girl!
hi i want to tell my story and get advice.
i'm a single sister ( in usa) that has been baptized for 20 years.
i came from the world, so did not grow up in the truth and i have no family in the truth -- i am alone.. last year i met a brother & we did have premarital sex while we were dating.
Welcome to the forum Sue. You are able to talk freely on this site without condemnation. Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, "Neither did I condemn thee..go and sin no more. So the elders were not Spirit directed.
the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.
the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).
he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.
Hi AQ
Let's deal with one verse at a time to see if Sheol is a place of torment for the unrighteous and something else for the righteous. Your first scripture
And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him. Gen.37:35 Does Jacob's response indicate that he believes Joseph is conscious and well in a happy part of Sheol? Let's see how this verse is translated to see if this thought of yours is supported. | |
| NKJV | And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, “For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.” Thus his father wept for him. |
| NLT | His family all tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “I will go to my grave mourning for my son,” he would say, and then he would weep. |
| ASV | And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down to Sheol to my son mourning. And his father wept for him. |
| DBY | And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted, and said, For I will go down to my son into Sheol mourning. Thus his father wept for him. |
| HNV | All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted. He said, "For I will go down to She'ol to my son mourning." His father wept for him. |
| RSV | All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and said, "No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning." Thus his father wept for him. |
| VUL | congregatis autem cunctis liberis eius ut lenirent dolorem patris noluit consolationem recipere et ait descendam ad filium meum lugens in infernum et illo perseverante in fletu |
| WEB | And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave to my son mourning: Thus his father wept for him. |
| YLT | and all his sons and all his daughters rise to comfort him, and he refuseth to comfort himself, and saith, 'For -- I go down mourning unto my son, to Sheol,' and his father weepeth for him. |
| NIV | All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “No,” he said, “I will continue to mourn until I join my son in the grave.” So his father wept for him. |
| ESV | All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted and said, “No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” Thus his father wept for him. |
| RVR60 | Y se levantaron todos sus hijos y todas sus hijas para consolarlo; mas él no quiso recibir consuelo, y dijo: Descenderé enlutado a mi hijo hasta el Seol. Y lo lloró su padre. |
| CSB | All his sons and daughters tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “No,” he said. “I will go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” And his father wept for him. |
| NET | All his sons and daughters stood by him to console him, but he refused to be consoled. "No," he said, "I will go to the grave mourning my son." So Joseph's father wept for him. |
| WLC | וַיָּקֻמוּ֩ כָל־בָּנָ֨יו וְכָל־בְּנֹתָ֜יו לְנַחֲמֹ֗ו וַיְמָאֵן֙ לְהִתְנַחֵ֔ם וַיֹּ֕אמֶר כִּֽי־אֵרֵ֧ד אֶל־בְּנִ֛י אָבֵ֖ל שְׁאֹ֑לָה וַיֵּ֥בְךְּ אֹתֹ֖ו אָבִֽיו׃ |
| LXX | συνήχθησαν δὲ πάντες οἱ υἱοὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ αἱ θυγατέρες καὶ ἦλθον παρακαλέσαι αὐτόν καὶ οὐκ ἤθελεν παρακαλεῖσθαι λέγων ὅτι καταβήσομαι πρὸς τὸν υἱόν μου πενθῶν εἰς ᾅδου καὶ ἔκλαυσεν αὐτὸν ὁ πατὴρ αὐτοῦ |
| BBE | And all his sons and all his daughters came to give him comfort, but he would not be comforted, saying with weeping, I will go down to the underworld to my son. So great was his father's sorrow for him. |
| NKJV | And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, “For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.” Thus his father wept for him. |
| NLT | His family all tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “I will go to my grave mourning for my son,” he would say, and then he would weep. |
| ASV | And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down to Sheol to my son mourning. And his father wept for him. |
| DBY | And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted, and said, For I will go down to my son into Sheol mourning. Thus his father wept for him. |
| HNV | All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted. He said, "For I will go down to She'ol to my son mourning." His father wept for him. |
| RSV | All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and said, "No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning." Thus his father wept for him. |
| VUL | congregatis autem cunctis liberis eius ut lenirent dolorem patris noluit consolationem recipere et ait descendam ad filium meum lugens in infernum et illo perseverante in fletu |
| WEB | And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave to my son mourning: Thus his father wept for him. |
| YLT | and all his sons and all his daughters rise to comfort him, and he refuseth to comfort himself, and saith, 'For -- I go down mourning unto my son, to Sheol,' and his father weepeth for him. |
| NIV | All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “No,” he said, “I will continue to mourn until I join my son in the grave.” So his father wept for him. |
| ESV | All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted and said, “No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” Thus his father wept for him. |
| RVR60 | |
| CSB | All his sons and daughters tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “No,” he said. “I will go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” And his father wept for him. |
| NET | All his sons and daughters stood by him to console him, but he refused to be consoled. "No," he said, "I will go to the grave mourning my son." So Joseph's father wept for him. |
