thedog1 said.............. hi sam.
i just listened to your jc hearing for re-instatement.
without knowing the details of what happened it is difficult to make a comment on it but here goes.
@KateWild:
" You seem so caring and considerate, I bet you wouldn't have even df'd me in the first place if we were in your cong. If all elders were like you, we would have a better organisation, but the fact is they aren't."
Perhaps true. But even the greatest intentioned, most justice-loving man would be too corrupt. :) - It is simply none of their business. The only reason they think so is because the WT has said this. Not scripture.
MMM
thedog1 said.............. hi sam.
i just listened to your jc hearing for re-instatement.
without knowing the details of what happened it is difficult to make a comment on it but here goes.
@thedog1:
Is the Jerusalem Bible a more literally or commentary-like version? RSV is a more literal, and yet not as "forceful". But note: it is irrelavant. Why does it demand, or even "suggest", that this is an organizational action - especially in light of the fact that the members of the Cor. congregation did not completely follow Paul's words? (see the scripture I cited in 2 Cor when the man was trying to repent). That is, there was no central decision. The language can be VERY forceful, but it is FORCEFUL language to the congregation, not a direcive to form a committee and decide for all the members. Why does it mean a central body makes the decision for the members - thereby giving the elders athority over the conscience of the congregation?
The inidividual members, at least in this case (the one you cite in 1 Cor 5 as support for the authority), ultimately made the decision on their own, and some of them decided to keep association.
MMM
thedog1 said.............. hi sam.
i just listened to your jc hearing for re-instatement.
without knowing the details of what happened it is difficult to make a comment on it but here goes.
@thedog1:
"I suppose this depends on whether you acknowledge the right of a body of elders to guide and direct matters in a cong."
Why would anyone acknowledge that? Is there a scripture that would give them authority over the conscience of the members?
MMM
edit: Note, we aren't talking about 'directing matters' in a general sense. We are talking about telling members to shun another member based on a judicial decision.
thedog1 said.............. hi sam.
i just listened to your jc hearing for re-instatement.
without knowing the details of what happened it is difficult to make a comment on it but here goes.
@thedog1,
Respectfully, you side-stepped my question. You may have done this unintentionally. You said: " and after careful consideration and scriptural reflection, the body of elders would be in a position to make a call on this."
WHY elders? Why not individual members for all sorts of "sins"? The scripture you cite does not imply centralized judicial action.
MMM
edit: As a clairification, I don't see the scriptural precedent for a judicial committee. I see the precedent for members deciding, perhaps that someone is a bad influence, and therefore limiting association. But there is no precedent for a body of elders to declare a person fit or unfit for association.
thedog1 said.............. hi sam.
i just listened to your jc hearing for re-instatement.
without knowing the details of what happened it is difficult to make a comment on it but here goes.
thedog1:
You said: " Paul did say that the congregation should 'remove the wicked man from among yourselves,' so there is scriptural precedent for judicial action."
Why do you feel this scripture at 1 Cor. 5 indicates it is the responsibility of a body of elders, through a judicial committee, to "expel" an individual? Why isn't Paul simply giving advise to the individual members of the congregation - especially in light of the fact that the words in 1 Cor were followed by the majority, but not all (see 2 Cor. 2:6)?
In other words, regardless of how well-intentioned an elder is, no matter how concerned with justice he may be, it is not enough. The elder is past the biblical "precedent" simply by taking away the freedom of the other members of the congregation to make up his/her own mind to associate.
MMM
when you look at the image above what do you see?
a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.
well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.
DF all the witnesses that have been or are attending the University of Phoenix...
MMM
when you look at the image above what do you see?
a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.
well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.
Perhaps those JW elders should stay away from "Midas Brake and Muffler" ... go somewhere else if you need to get some work done on your brakes...
MMM
when you look at the image above what do you see?
a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.
well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.
Hmmm... do any of the elders have "Pandora" internet radio?
MMM
when you look at the image above what do you see?
a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.
well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.
Don't forget the Dodge Ares...
MMM
in the light of current events (the witchtower editor is currently visiting the district convention of microsoft's witnesses in berlin, meeting "more than 500 brothers at one time"):.
http://www.svhelden.info/witchtower/2012/05/how-can-you-find-the-true-religion/.
how can you find the true religion?windows in his roof chamber being open ... even three times in a day he was kneeling on his knees and praying and offering praise before his god.
Thumbs up !!!
