NewChapter... Excellent point... I guess it could be said that the Watchtower "officially" became a CULT in 1981... Hopefully Dogpatch will chime in with his perspective on this...
Posts by Alfred
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15Was the policy change to equate DA to DF because of Ray?
by teel inas ray says in the last chapter of coc, before 1981 da was quite different from df.
"persons who resigned were not treated the same as those disfellowshiped", they were not shunned for example, except when the dad person enters into politics or military.. i put it on account of humbleness that ray says he doesn't think they changed the policy just to use it against him, he probably feels he wasn't so significant as to warrant such a far-reaching change.
but it seems way too convenient that the policy change came at that exact time, too much of a coincidence.
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Was the policy change to equate DA to DF because of Ray?
by teel inas ray says in the last chapter of coc, before 1981 da was quite different from df.
"persons who resigned were not treated the same as those disfellowshiped", they were not shunned for example, except when the dad person enters into politics or military.. i put it on account of humbleness that ray says he doesn't think they changed the policy just to use it against him, he probably feels he wasn't so significant as to warrant such a far-reaching change.
but it seems way too convenient that the policy change came at that exact time, too much of a coincidence.
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Alfred
NewChapter... Excellent point... I guess it could be said that the Watchtower "officially" became a CULT in 1981... Hopefully Dogpatch will chime in with his perspective on this...
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Was the policy change to equate DA to DF because of Ray?
by teel inas ray says in the last chapter of coc, before 1981 da was quite different from df.
"persons who resigned were not treated the same as those disfellowshiped", they were not shunned for example, except when the dad person enters into politics or military.. i put it on account of humbleness that ray says he doesn't think they changed the policy just to use it against him, he probably feels he wasn't so significant as to warrant such a far-reaching change.
but it seems way too convenient that the policy change came at that exact time, too much of a coincidence.
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Alfred
Bumping this for the newbies and lurkers...
The reason we can no longer dissassociate without being shunned by family is because the policy changed in 1981... The was done for the sole purpose of shutting down Raymond Franz as the remaining members of the Governing Body (especially Whacky Freddy) was afraid that Ray would air their extremely dirty laundry... Before 1981, anyone could freely dissassociate without being shunned (although dissaossiated JWs weren't really looked at favorably by JWs in general, but they weren't actually "shunned" in the full sense of the word)...
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My association with this organisation is coming to its end!
by TimothyT inim posting from my boyfriend's house!
im having a week here with him to get away from things and to enjoy myself.
recently i came out to my entire family that im gay.
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Alfred
Timothy T...
That elder seems to be one of few open-minded elders... it appears he wants to make things as easy as possible for you. Most elders would probably take a hard line and start taking the steps they're expected to take.
(BTW, my wife and I have been friends with a gay non-JW couple for 6 years now, but we've only been out of the borg for a little over a year... they're probably the best friends we have right now... We never mentioned this friendship with anyone out of fear of being marked, reproved or disfelloshipped. But we always knew that being gay is definitely NOT a choice that people make and it certainly isn't an evil act, so we never really accepted the WT's viewpoint about homosexuality... )
Just know that you're making the right choice... i hope you thoroughly enjoy your new-found freedom!
Good luck!
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Has there been a change on how JW's view those that have drifted away?
by lonestar63 ini wonder if an article in the wt came out telling them to reach out to those that have drifted away.
i suspect the defection has been great in the last few years, and they're trying to bring some back.
i've told my story here, how i was able to succesfully fade away along with my family, without being df'd.
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Alfred
I've been out for over a year and in the last few weeks I've received 2 voicemails from an elder asking me to please call him back... The last voicemail sounded extremely businesslike... I guess the CO is coming soon and they're trying to give him at least 2 "Inactive Visits" so he can meet his quota.
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Simon... has the WTBTS ever tried to hack this site?
by Alfred ini've only been on this site for 10 months or so and i've already received 2 pms from members of this site (who have no posts)requesting my friendship and providing an email address where i can request a photo of the person... i happen to know that i am "marked", so i wonder if this is just a ploy to match my personal email address to the one the elders in my congo have... this also makes me wonder if the wtbts is behind some theocratic warfare strategy to obtain proof for judicial committees.
i realize this is purely speculative, but i would be interested to know if the wt or any other party has ever tried to hack this site for the purpose of obtaining members' personal email addresses...
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Alfred
Thanks Simon... Do you need the name of the latest spammer? I can post it here or send you a PM... Please let me know
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Simon... has the WTBTS ever tried to hack this site?
by Alfred ini've only been on this site for 10 months or so and i've already received 2 pms from members of this site (who have no posts)requesting my friendship and providing an email address where i can request a photo of the person... i happen to know that i am "marked", so i wonder if this is just a ploy to match my personal email address to the one the elders in my congo have... this also makes me wonder if the wtbts is behind some theocratic warfare strategy to obtain proof for judicial committees.
i realize this is purely speculative, but i would be interested to know if the wt or any other party has ever tried to hack this site for the purpose of obtaining members' personal email addresses...
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Alfred
Nick... Valid point... However, they have done some really stupid things in the past (like joining the UN, allowing Mexican brothers to bribe military officials and charge for parking at stadiums where the parking was included, etc, etc)... Mad... You're right... They're not smart enough... Which is why I think theykre stupid enough to try...
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Simon... has the WTBTS ever tried to hack this site?
by Alfred ini've only been on this site for 10 months or so and i've already received 2 pms from members of this site (who have no posts)requesting my friendship and providing an email address where i can request a photo of the person... i happen to know that i am "marked", so i wonder if this is just a ploy to match my personal email address to the one the elders in my congo have... this also makes me wonder if the wtbts is behind some theocratic warfare strategy to obtain proof for judicial committees.
i realize this is purely speculative, but i would be interested to know if the wt or any other party has ever tried to hack this site for the purpose of obtaining members' personal email addresses...
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Alfred
I've only been on this site for 10 months or so and I've already received 2 PMs from members of this site (who have no posts)requesting my friendship and providing an email address where I can request a photo of the person... I happen to know that I am "marked", so I wonder if this is just a ploy to match my personal email address to the one the elders in my congo have... This also makes me wonder if the WTBTS is behind some theocratic warfare strategy to obtain proof for Judicial Committees. I realize this is purely speculative, but I would be interested to know if the WT or any other party has ever tried to hack this site for the purpose of obtaining members' personal email addresses...
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Long Call With Elder: Doesn't Know About "Generations/Overlapping"
by daringhart13 ini had a call with a good buddy......still an elder the other night.. when i mentioned generations/overlapping.......he had no clue what i was talking about.
such a good man.......... but it doesn't matter.....they don't even realize what is being said to them; what is being done to them.
a high stature elder in their organization....and he had no clue there was another change..... how the hell does this happen?.
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Alfred
Don't get me started... When that April 15, 2010 issue of the Watchtower arrived at my hall, I immediately showed one of the elders the page that revised the generation definition, essentially pointing out that it is now taught to be TWO overlapping generations... His smug response was: "That's a change? I don't see that as a change. It's still one generation." I couldn't believe how incredibly oblivious he was to this... Either that, or his JW defense mechanism activated when he sensed I was being critical of the WT (which I really wasn't at the time)... I then showed it to the elder in charge of the WT Study and when this study article came up in June 2010, he completely skipped the question as he knew I would be picking him apart after the meeting... He's knows something isn't right but he has way too much to lose, so he'd much rather prefer to remain ignorant...
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Refuting Franz's Crisis of Conscience
by irondork ini'm about halfway through crisis of conscience.
some pretty extraordinary stuff in there.. wondering, aside from telling people not to read "apostate material", has there been any official denial or refutation of the books contents by the watchtower society, official or otherwise?.
side note: franz is a wonderful writer, if a bit repetitive in places.
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Alfred
Godrulz... Did you lose pentecostal family or friends to the WTBTS... If so, posting on this site won't get them back... Just saying...