Don't pay any attention to this. It's all messed up and out of order and pieces are missing. UUUUGGGGHHHHH! Very frustrating.
GrandmaJones
JoinedPosts by GrandmaJones
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Can Armageddon and the Resurrection be reconciled? Part 1 What the jews believe
by GrandmaJones inper a special request, i am posting the reasons that i don't believe that you can reconcile the teaching of the resurrection and the teaching that all non-believers will be destroyed at armageddon.
(with scriptual, bible-based (tm) notes.
views of pharisees and sadducees.
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Can Armageddon and the Resurrection be reconciled? Part 1 What the jews believe
by GrandmaJones inper a special request, i am posting the reasons that i don't believe that you can reconcile the teaching of the resurrection and the teaching that all non-believers will be destroyed at armageddon.
(with scriptual, bible-based (tm) notes.
views of pharisees and sadducees.
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GrandmaJones
Per a special request, I am posting the reasons that I don't believe that you can reconcile the teaching of the resurrection and the teaching that all non-believers will be destroyed at Armageddon. (With scriptual, bible-based (tm) notes.) Please don't kill the messenger guys!
Okay, part one, what do the Jews believe?
It is instructive to examine the teachings first of the Jewish faith. After all, when Jesus came, he did not refute the Jewish belief in the resurrection. For such a fundamental and central Jewish belief not to be emphatically denied speaks for its acceptance as a fundamental teaching of Christians as well.
In reference to the Hebrew teachings, let’s consider what “Wikipedia” says regarding the belief of the Jews concerning the resurrection as reflected by the Hebrew Scriptures:
“ The
There are three explicit examples in the Hebrew Bible of people being resuscitated from death:
The prophet
Similarly,
Elisha raises the son of the Shunammite woman ( 2 Kings 4:32-37 ); this was the very same child whose birth he previously foretold ( 2 Kings 4:8-16 )A dead man's body that was thrown into the dead Elisha's tomb is resurrected when the body touches Elisha's bones (
Additional passages in the Hebrew Bible traditionally interpreted as referring to resurrection include:
Ezekiel ’s vision of the valley of dry bones brought to restoration as a living army, which is commonly taken to be a metaphorical prophecy that the house of Israel would one day be gathered from the nations, out of exile, to live in the land of Israel once more. Most scholars, however, do not hold this to be referring to a belief in a future resurrection:"He said to me, 'Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, 'Thus says the Lord God, "Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they come to life."' So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they came to life, and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army. Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' "Therefore prophesy, and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel." (
Samuel - "The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to Sheol and raises up." ( 1 Samuel 2:6 )Job - "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God" ( Job 19:26 ) Isaiah - "Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth Daniel 's vision, where a mysterious angelic figure tells Daniel, "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt." ( Daniel 12:2 )Pharisees who, according to some Christian sources, believed in the future Resurrection, and the Sadducees who did not. The Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife at all. [1] Confirming such a dichotomy, according to Josephus , who was a Pharisee himself, the Pharisees believed in the immortality of the soul and resurrection. (Josephus BJ 2.8.14, 3.8.5; Josephus Vita 2). The Sadducees, politically powerful religious leaders, took a literal view of the Torah, rejecting the Pharisees' oral law, afterlife, angels, and demons. The Pharisees, whose views became Rabbinic Judaism , eventually won (or at least survived) this debate. Although a minority in Karaite Judaism, some still do not believe in a Future Resurrection or afterlife. [2] The promise of a future resurrection appears in certain Jewish works, such as the Life of Adam and Eve , c 100 BC, and 2 Maccabees , c 124 BC. [3] Ezekiel 37:9-12 ) 2 Kings 13:21 ) Hebrew Bible refers to the term Sheol , which in traditional Judaism is translated simply as "grave" and is perceived as a transitory state. Critical views (see below) interpret it as a referring to a permanent, shadowy underworld. For biblical references to Sheol see Genesis 42:38 , Isaiah 14:11 , Psalm 141:7 , Proverbs 7:27 and Job 10:21-22 , and Job 17:16 , among others. Perhaps it is from Sheol, then, that the dead return. Elijah prays and God raises a young boy from death ( 1 Kings 17:17-24 )Views of Pharisees and Sadducees
Many modern scholars refer to alleged first century BC debates between the
Orthodox Judaism
Orthodox Judaism holds belief in resurrection to be one of the cardinal principles of Rabbinical Judaism . Jewish halakhic authority Maimonides set down thirteen main principles of the Jewish faith which have ever since been printed in all Orthodox Siddurim(prayer books). Resurrection is the thirteenth principle:
"I believe with complete (perfect) faith, that there will be techiat hameitim - revival of the dead, whenever it will be God's, blessed be He, will (desire) to arise and do so. May (God's) Name be blessed, and may His remembrance arise, forever and ever."
[4]The
Talmud makes it one of the few required Jewish beliefs, going so far as to say that "All Israel have a share in the World to Come...but a person who does not believe in...the resurrection of the dead...has no share in the World to Come." ( Sanhedrin90a).
The second blessing of the
Amidah , the central thrice-daily Jewish prayer is called Tehiyyat ha-Metim ("the resurrection of the dead") and closes with the words m'chayei hameitim ("who gives life to the dead") i.e., resurrection. The Amidah is traditionally attributed to the Great Assembly of Ezra; its text was finalized in approximately its present form in about the First Century CE.
Conservative Judaism
Conservative Judaism 's liturgy generally includes the traditional Hebrew text affirming belief in bodily resurrection, but its thinkers are divided. Many Conservative prayer books use an ambiguous translation into English that leaves open the possibility, but not the requirement, to believe in resurrection. [5]Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism
Reform Judaism and Reconstructionist Judaism reject Resurrection. Accordingly, they have modified the text to read m'chayei hakol ("who gives life to all"). In the new prayer book released by the Reform Judaism movement, they have returned the traditional prayer for the resurrection of the dead. [6]
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Growing-up Witness was Wonderful ...Until My Bubble Broke
by Green Jade ini was raised by a wonderful and close family.
i loved my congregation growing up.
when i would go to the meetings, i felt i could go to school the next day and deal with the pressures of that day.
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GrandmaJones
I know that we are not allowed to read "apostate" literature, and I began "lurking" here with an amount of fear that would make the organization proud. (except that I went ahead and did it). I have been in the "truth" for the better part of six decades, and have been regular in meeting attendance, field service, I aux pioneered even though I worked secularly in a demanding full time job. I still attend meetings regularly, but my eyes have been opened. There are doubts that have crept in, concerns about the organizations increasing emphasis on obedience to it, and reverence for it, loyalty to it....instead of to god. I did not dedicate myself all those years back to the organization. In my day, we recognized ourselves as sinners and dedicated ourselves to Jehovah. (not to the WT) The organization is making a sham of that. Now, to say and feel that defines me as an "apostate". Yes, that is where we have come to.
You have many concerns yourself. Racism, lack of love among the wittnesses, and I am sure of many others. Please read "Crisis of Conscience" written by Ray Franz, a former member of the governing body. He is the greatest "apostate" the organization fears. Rightly so, because when you read his story, you realize that any person truly dedicated to God, would feel the same way and express himself in a similar manner. As a young person, you will doubtlessly be shocked at the information. That is because you are young and haven't seen it all. Don't be afraid to read it as it is a good place to start. (Hide the book for now from others) Then read all the old posts here in the "Best of" series that Lee recommends on the home page. I suggest you start with Farkel, read one, and then read some others, back to Farkel. The thread concerning Rutherford is very enlightening although it may be overwhelming for you. Very well researched.
There is a vast array of information here for you. Strong stuff, more than just words of comfort. (I am not dismissing that, you need that very much, especially right now in your time of uncertainty. Then read the books on cults by Steve Hansen. You may be able to get thise books aat your local library right off the shelf. Or, they may be able to order them in for you. Ask at the desk.
When you have read enough, it will be clear to you. Investigating things by reading things outside of our literature will help you get a more balanced viewpoint. We are not encouraged to do so. You will find many articles her that are well researched and well reasoned. Take advantage of this information.
For now, my thoughts and wishes are with you and yours. Now is a crossroads. Know what is at the end of both roads.
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Heroes and Villains For the Braindead
by Farkel inheroes and villains for the braindead.
in a typical action movie, suspense movie or western, there are only heroes and villains.
the heroes can do nothing but good and the villains can do nothing but bad.
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GrandmaJones
Goodness, this was quite thought provoking. I never thought of it this way. I'm not sure I will now think of it any other way. A good read.
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Summer Assembly and Botox
by GrandmaJones inanother no-no from the wt.
this was obviously some sort of manuscript talk, i was there and heard it at the st. louis assembly and asked around, and i know it was at other district conventions.
what business is this for the fds to be in, not a scriptual affair at all.
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GrandmaJones
That is so cute. I wish I had that level of creativity. I may just do that at an assembly. Too risky for my own hall. (There is an attendant sitting in the lobby)
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December 2010 Awake Homosexuality
by bottleofwater inanyone have a good read of the ypa article on homosexuality?.
is it just me or is the doctrine becoming more lenient and less dogmatic?.
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GrandmaJones
The "holy spirit" will not "open it up if you lie" Read a little bit on the silent lambs and you will see that elders and Bethelites have molested young children, (as well as fathers, uncles, etc,etc) and no "holy spirit" outs them. Even the JC's don't out them. That websight alone will change your mind on the operation of the "holy spirit" with regard to "outing you". Keep your own counsel, and wait and plan for your escape.
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DA'd youth... How did your parents respond?
by bottleofwater ini'm wondering how any of your parents responded when you disassociated yourself with a letter.. should i do so?
i'm wondering how my parents will react since i'm moving in with my uncle just in time..
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GrandmaJones
Absolutely get you money straight before you stir up this pot. We live on money, not ideals. Save your confessions till you have a nice fat saving account. It takes a lot of money to move out and be independent. At least three or four thousand. More if you don't have a good full-time job. I would also advise having enough income to have your own place. Living with a roommate can be awful, even if you think you know them well. Ask any married person. Tough enough even if you are in love.
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Shocking WT Quotes
by brotherdan in[endif] /* font definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"cambria math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:1; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:other; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} @font-face {font-family:garamond; panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} /* style definitions */ p.msonormal, li.msonormal, div.msonormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .msochpdefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .msopapdefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.section1 {page:section1;} "vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice .. use your rights as american citizens [i.e.
[endif] /* font definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"cambria math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:1; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:other; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} @font-face {font-family:garamond; panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} /* style definitions */ p.msonormal, li.msonormal, div.msonormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .msochpdefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .msopapdefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.section1 {page:section1;} "some one asked me the other day: suppose you should be here in 1925 what would you do?
[endif] /* font definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"cambria math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:1; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:other; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} @font-face {font-family:garamond; panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} /* style definitions */ p.msonormal, li.msonormal, div.msonormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .msochpdefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .msopapdefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.section1 {page:section1;} "many have wondered how accidents would be avoided during christ's kingdom, since we are told that nothing shall then hurt or destroy.
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GrandmaJones
I'd be hard pressed to come up with anything better. Thanks for the post. It is really good.
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Rutherford Exposed: The Story of Berta and Bonnie
by Farkel init was made by a women who in later years wore crotchless panties and bras which had holes in the nipple areas.
he not only knew the woman in question (she's now deceased), he has met her numerous times.
up until recently this secret of her year's long sexual affair with rutherford was kept by the family.
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GrandmaJones
What wonderful research. This takes some time to read, but every word was worth it. I think all newbies need to read.
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Why do I come here
by Luo bou to ini believe i have completely freed myself from any borg influence yet i am drawn to this board.
like many of you ,i lost my wife and family, but i don't believe i can do anything about that, and if i could, i doubt that it would be a kindness on my part to do so.
they have so much invested.
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GrandmaJones
Wobble expressed my thoughts well....I can't stay away either and I spend a good deal of time reading old posts and threads. It's been very educating.