Jehovah's Witnesses 'fostered distrust' of secular authority – royal commission counsel
Church’s response to child sexual abuse fell short of best practice, says Angus Stewart QC in his damning submission, published on Tuesday
will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.
in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.
available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.
Church’s response to child sexual abuse fell short of best practice, says Angus Stewart QC in his damning submission, published on Tuesday
i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.
seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.
they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.
will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.
in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.
available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.
Personally I feel vindicated by the report, but it's disgusting that this report ever had to be written. It's clear that the court is hopefully going to make them pay. I find it difficult to move past the 1800+ victims.
The courts clearly indicate that the elders lied and GB controls everything
there was a letter sent to elders in australia on 18th november 2015 asking for details of publishers that are solicitors, barristers and accountants.
what would be their motive for these details?
the rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher.
big difference is that CPA's are mentioned. It was not mentioned in the US, and I don't think it was done in the UK.
Completely different skill set.
Something is amiss.
there was a letter sent to elders in australia on 18th november 2015 asking for details of publishers that are solicitors, barristers and accountants.
what would be their motive for these details?
the rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher.
That line "does he accept counsel and direction willingly" and "Do his actions and speech show respect for theocratic arrangements" is the biggest insult to anyone with professional accreditation.
Its nothing more than newspeak saying is he willing to bypass the code of ethics from the professional association and be a company man.
I remember getting that line that its a theocratic organization and you need to follow it with the new donation arrangement after I suggested to the BOE that it wasn't ethical from the standpoint of my external accreditations.
Still, the most interesting part is that this is the legal department looking for them, rather than the service department. Does the legal department oversee the accounting? I thought it was the service department? If its the legal that would suggest something is afoot in aussie.
somebody mentioned in a recent topic that they had a conversation with a former elder whose breaking point was when the overlapping generation was highlighted in recent times and how he would never serve again until somebody gave him a scriptural reason to believe it.
i am in a similar position.
i have gone in the last 18 months from taking the wt study, leading fs groups, and doing talks on the mtngs to doing almost nothing, as i resigned a little over a year ago as an elder due to a combination of family responsibilities and huge doubts.
Sabin to your question "what is it easier for us to say, "I don't believe this is Gods organization, or I don't believe God would approve of protecting child molesters". it's the same thing is it not."
Personally I would tend to the latter, but it is the same thing.
I'm always left wondering how the Jews would likely stone a child molester yet we send them door to door. I don't think Christ would approve.
somebody mentioned in a recent topic that they had a conversation with a former elder whose breaking point was when the overlapping generation was highlighted in recent times and how he would never serve again until somebody gave him a scriptural reason to believe it.
i am in a similar position.
i have gone in the last 18 months from taking the wt study, leading fs groups, and doing talks on the mtngs to doing almost nothing, as i resigned a little over a year ago as an elder due to a combination of family responsibilities and huge doubts.
Sabin,
it has ruffled a few feathers to say the least. The most surprising reaction was "in" family over the friends. In some cases I know it has caused many to gossip and wonder, as I've only told some tiny bits to those "in" family whom I thought could handle it (they couldn't).
Walking away was easier than I thought, at the time I had the protection of every child on my mind. As I said to my wife that if anyone has a problem with me wanting to protect children over a bunch of pedo's and thinks I'm crazy, then how in Gods name can this not be a cult.
I think its different when its a line that has to be crossed over a doctrine difference. The can be the same, but its not typical.
somebody mentioned in a recent topic that they had a conversation with a former elder whose breaking point was when the overlapping generation was highlighted in recent times and how he would never serve again until somebody gave him a scriptural reason to believe it.
i am in a similar position.
i have gone in the last 18 months from taking the wt study, leading fs groups, and doing talks on the mtngs to doing almost nothing, as i resigned a little over a year ago as an elder due to a combination of family responsibilities and huge doubts.
I can't help but think that the hero complex is what delusioned so many elders. The hero being the GB, then with the video's we now see what you can't ignore, and it saddens so many elders who are lacking the superiority complexes. What it has done is magnify the doubts. These men were on pedestals and could do no wrong, now you see them on TV as men, and the mistakes manifest themselves quickly.
I saw it in the elder body I was part of this year that the GB themselves are making it worse not better. Especially after AMIII tight pants talk last year.
I left quite simply after I said I would never do what they asked with regards to a child abuse case. Some lines can't be crossed. Like you I see that it was clearly the correct decision, and that my conscience is much cleaner now that the WT is not leading my family and I down a hole they would have further difficulty going down.
To those that have stepped down and remained in the congregation, I applaud your first step of a difficult journey. Just don't let doubts be your first and last step.
i am jehovah's witness, despite some of the questionable teachings, crimes, and other outlandish behaviors of specific people affiliated with the religion.
i know that my relationship with jehovah is not influenced by any outside factors.
i do not condone any crime.
lovesjehovah,
The point your likely missing is that on this site its a mix of people that are agnostic, atheist, or doubters, but the underlying them is that there is a distrust of the organization that claims to be God's sole channel.
The reality is that if you are a lover of truth, they you can't ignore the issues that God would have with the Watchtower.
The bible asks us to become Christians or followers of Christ...so how can/or why should one even identify themselves as a Jehovah's Witness, as that would be contrary to what the bible asks of us?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbpbb5k_mc
Well it would appear they are not even that comfortable with what they are talking about. The thing I can't help but wonder is if its crucial for them to have Fred Franz to make this whole overlap work?
Else, why even defend it? Still your relying on a handwritten note found in a suitcase. It's like saying Colonel Mustard did it with the candlestick in the library is more credible.
They must also have so 40 year old partakers....
Funny times in JW land - Can't believe I even followed this....