Spade

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Posts by Spade

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  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

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  Spade

  Well this wasn't very coherent. Why do I have to explain anything to you?

  I know my reasons for being here. I'm not sure you know why you're here.

  ---

  I'm here because it's a forum where you can discuss anything pertaining to Jehovah's Witnesses.
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

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• 

  Spade

  I'm sure you have nice parents mrsjones5. There's no place like home.
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

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  2. 
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  Spade

  Where does mrsjones5's indignation to the Watchtower Society come from? Let me guess...family if you were never baptized?
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spade

  "Spade, are you posting this drivel to convince us or yourself? If it's to convince us you don't seem to be making any headway. If it's to convince yourself I'd say you're in the wrong spot. I think a kingdom hall would be a better fit."

  I simply posted a logical response to what was stated. You're not honest mrsjones5.
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spade

  DanaBug, that sounds like a description of Papal infallibility.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
  
  Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation.
  
  jv chap. 31 p. 706 How Chosen and Led by God
  
  How would true worshipers living in the time of the end be identified? Would they always be right, would their judgment be infallible? Jesus’ apostles were not above the need for correction. (Luke 22:24-27; Gal. 2:11-14) Like the apostles, true followers of Christ in our day must be humble, willing to accept discipline and, when necessary, make adjustments, in order to bring their thinking into ever closer harmony with God’s.—1 Pet. 5:5, 6.
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spade

  "Spade, if you are not a JW, why are you defending them? What exactly is your motivation, besides to troll? If the JW's are so great and so right, why aren't you one? I would think it would make you sort of a hypocrite to come here and call out people who aren't practicing JW's when you aren't willing to be one yourself."

  I have family members that are Jehovah's Witnesses. I can't honestly say Jehovah's Witnesses are a false religion. It's proud in my opinion to rant and rave about how you don't need God for anything. Other religions small and large don't show the same integrity and Bible insight that they do. They're not your typical cult as many here pass them off as. It's actually more disturbing that a forum that advertises itself as a neutral forum to discuss anything pertaining to Jehovah's Witnesses is 99% full of former members.
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spade

  Oh yeah I forgot this part.

  Rutherford had a far more lenient attitude towards drunkenness, fornication, and other similar sins. So the Society now teaches that people who do "such things as fornication, getting drunk, lying or cheating" will not be saved at Armageddon (Paradise Earth, 1989, p. 155). This is on the basis of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. When Rutherford commented on this scripture, he took the opposite stance. He said that although drunkenness and other similar sins are to be "properly condemned," the people who commit these offenses often "are victims of circumstances" and "hampered by fleshly weaknesses which they are powerless to resist ... They are sinners; but not wicked people, because their hearts are not wicked. It often happens that such people are credited with being the 'best-hearted people in the community'. They are sinners, and commit offenses because of weaknesses or because of ignorance. God pities the sinners and makes allowances for their weaknesses" (Watchtower, 15 March 1929, pp. 93-94). Those doing God's work in vindicating his name are those who please God, regardless of fleshly weakness; Rutherford used the example of King David whose "flesh was weak" but as the earthly representative of God's organization he "could be called a man after God's own heart" (Watchtower, 1 September 1929, p. 271). The ones who are specifically condemned to destruction at Armageddon are those who oppose God's interests and are part of Satan's organization.

  ---

  Few people have ever discerned that the Bible makes a distinction between a sinner and a wicked person. All men are sinners because born in sin. The Scriptures declare that "there is none righteous, no, not one". Not all men, however, are wicked. A wicked person is one who willfully, maliciously and with deliberate intent, seeks to injure, oppose, misrepresent, hinder or thwart the work of Jehovah God, and to slander his name.
  
  It often happens that such people are credited with being the 'best-hearted people in the community'. They are sinners, and commit offenses because of weaknesses or because of ignorance. God pities the sinners and makes allowances for their weaknesses and their ignorance. Watchtower, 15 March 1929, pp. 93-94
  
  This distinction is outlined in the Bible;
  
  For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” Matthew 9:13
  
  I am grateful to Christ Jesus our Lord, who imparted power to me, because he considered me faithful by assigning me to a ministry, although formerly I was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insolent man. Nevertheless, I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith. 1 Timothy 1:12-13
  
  Faithful and deserving of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. 1 Timothy 1:15
  
  For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Hebrews 10:26-27
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spade

  "I must ask this in all seriousness. Are you counting time here?

  I ask this because my wife revealed to me today that when she and I discuss the WT religion, she counts at least an hour for FS. I told her that she and I could discuss religion more if she wanted and she could log at least 10 hours a month just on me."

  So far I don't go door-to-door. It's actually easier to stand out as different here than to go door-to-door, but this doesn't count as "time."
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spade

  It would be nice if other defenders of Jehovah's Witnesses participated here. Seems awkward.
• 
  101

  The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

  it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

  any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Spade

  http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html It's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about Jehovah’s Witnesses, they can find out from Jehovah’s Witnesses. Any and all information ever published by Jehovah Witnesses is accessible to all. The quality of their personalities can be assessed in person at any Kingdom Hall and not just taken at face value unlike the numerous cyberghosts that run amok on the internet. Good educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion, but there are real problems with some former members:

  • They sift the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others

  • They also distort and twist facts, specializing in lies and half-truths

  • They take sides with others that have deviated from the organization often slandering men who are no longer around to defend themselves

  But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·nae′us and Phi·le′tus are of that number. These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18

  A good example of this are statements about Joseph Franklin Rutherford (8 November 1869 – 8 January 1942), the second president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. In the early development of the organization there were those who allowed pride to undermine their faith including Alexandre Freytag, the manager of the Society’s office in Geneva, Switzerland. He liked to attract attention to himself, would add his own ideas when translating the Society’s publications into French, and even used the Society’s facilities to publish his own material. In Canada, there was W. F. Salter, a branch manager of the Society who began to disagree with the Society’s publications, let it be known that he expected to be the next president of the Watch Tower Society, and, after he was dismissed, dishonestly used the Society’s letterhead to instruct congregations in Canada and abroad to study material that he personally had written. In Nigeria, there was, among others, G. M. Ukoli, who at first showed zeal for the truth but then began to see it as a means of material gain and personal prominence. Afterward, when thwarted in his aims, he turned to roasting faithful brothers in the public press. And there were others.
  
  Olin R. Moyle and Walter F. Salter were two men that accused Rutherford of "unkind treatment of the staff, outbursts of anger, discrimination and vulgar language, heavy drinking and the "glorification of alcohol" at Bethel. There are two sides to every story and while these men are deceased, some former members of Jehovah's Organization will omit what was stated by Rutherford's contemporaries that spoke in his defense: Watchtower October 15, 1939 “At a joint meeting of the boards of directors of the Pennsylvania corporation and the New York corporation of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society held at the office of the Society at Brooklyn, N.Y., this 8th day of August, 1939, at which other members of the family were present, there was read to said boards and in the presence of O.R. Moyle, a letter dated July 21, 1939, written by said Moyle and addressed to the president of the Society.
  
  For four years past the writer of that letter has been entrusted with the confidential matters of the Society. It now appears that the writer of that letter, without excuse, libels the family of God at Bethel, and identifies himself as one who speaks evil against the Lord’s organization, and who is a murmurer and complainer, even as the Scriptures have foretold. (Jude 4-16; 1 Cor. 4:3; Rom. 14:4)
  
  The members of the board of directors hereby resent the unjust criticism appearing in that letter, disapprove of the writer and his actions, and recommend that the president of the Society immediately terminate the relationship of Olin R. Moyle to the Society as legal counsel and as a member of the Bethel family.”
  
  There's no way to know for sure if J.F. Rutherford ever abused alcohol but this is one item of interest that opposers capitalize on and they do not present both sides of the story. A noteworthy fact is that Rutherford lived to the age of 73 in good health. The abuse of alcohol is condemned in Jehovah's Organization and this fact can be ascertained by getting to know them as individuals. The personality qualities of an organization has been and is always magnified in its leadership.
  
  Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole lump? Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, according as you are free from ferment. For, indeed, Christ our passover has been sacrificed. Consequently let us keep the festival, not with old leaven, neither with leaven of badness and wickedness, but with unfermented cakes of sincerity and truth. 1 Corinthians 5:6-8