Posts by Giordano

95

Is Liberal Christianity Smug and Arrogant?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

is liberal christianity smug and arrogant?.

the liberal christian finds himself in a belief system that would be unfamiliar to the overwhelming majority of christians who've lived and died before him, over the past two thousand years.

is the liberal christian, in effect, saying to these previous christians, "you were doing it wrong.

Giordano

I had to look it up: Found this site called http://www.gotquestions.org/liberal-Christian-theology.html whose moto is: got questions? the bible has the answers....we'll find them for you! LOL.

Answering the question they actually make a case for liberal-Christian-theology: "In “liberal Christian” teaching, which is not Christian at all, man’s reason is stressed and is treated as the final authority. Liberal theologians seek to reconcile Christianity with secular science and “modern thinking.” In doing so, they treat science as all-knowing and the Bible as fable-laden and false. Genesis’ early chapters are reduced to poetry or fantasy, having a message, but not to be taken literally (in spite of Jesus’ having spoken of those early chapters in literal terms). Mankind is not seen as totally depraved, and thus liberal theologians have an optimistic view of the future of mankind. The social gospel is also emphasized, while denying the inability of fallen man to fulfill it. Whether a person is saved from their sin and its penalty in hell is no longer the issue; the main thing is how man treats his fellow man. “Love” of our fellow man becomes the defining issue. As a result of this “reasoning” by liberal theologians, the following doctrines are taught by liberal quasi-Christian theologians: "

I'll leave it up to readers to pop over for a quick look (my new years resolution is not to quote obsessively from the internet) and see how smug and arrogant really sounds.

16

DEATH THREATS TO CHILDREN OF JWs IF PARENTS FAIL TO GET THEM TO SELL WATCHTOWER PUBLICATIONS

by still wondering in

.

jw parents are put under enormous pressure if they want their kids to live.

if parents dont want their children killed they had better get their kids to spend 6 hours a day selling the watchtowers children book or else.

Giordano

They're legal now since 1989, I had to look it up. Of course it was all about property.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080210225006AAbLQXz

Death threats and the Mexico thing really defines how screwed up the WTBTS is. Both issues are unforgiveable and unexplainable.

30

Latest research findings: The more believers doubt their own beliefs, the more they proselytize in favor of them .

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

on december 10, 2010, appearing in our local newspaper was an article titled, social science palooza, written by columnist, david brooks.

"every day, hundreds of thousands of scholars study human behavior.

every day, a few of their studies are bundled and distributed via e-mail by kevin lewis, who covers the social sciences for the boston globe and national affairs.

Giordano

"In light of this study, do you think the Witnesses who are the most vigorous in defending their religion, really doubt their beliefs?"

I'll go against the grain and say no I don't think so. That point of view feels a little counter intuitive. A vigorous defense seems to be the style of the true believer; sometimes out of firm conviction, impatience with 'heresy' or because some need to have control over the situation. They are accustomed to keeping the 'power bond' with their god. To set an example and/or to protect their role in the congregation (being an elder).

I think that 'doubters' are the quite ones maybe because their families are sitting next to them, or they feel obligated to the community they've been a part of, perhaps even sad that their belief has faded. They tend not to draw attention to themselves.

27

Don't post too often but need some support

by ~Jen~ in

jw
friends

this is my 2nd christmas after leaving the jw's.

last year there was drama surrounding the time and i never really focused on it.

this year is differant and i'm having a hard time with it.

Giordano

Sorry to hear that Jen. For a lot of people Christmas can be a lonely time of year. I don't know your circumstances, whether you plan to go back to the JW world, age or health. If your not going back then you need to reach out to people if you want to reconnect socially. The best way to do that is to volunteer for something worthwhile. In our small city/town my friends are active in the SPCA, the Free Clinic, the Food pantry, Preservation groups, Master gardeners club, Habitat, local theater etc. etc.

The reason I said it's the best way to connect with people is because caring honest people tend to be volunteers. Because you choose to participate you experience immediate recognition of your value, and because you work side by side you have the opportunity to develop relationships in a relaxed natural way. And since your not paid if it doesn't work out your not stuck.

Just a thought.

40

Why do people look to the Bible for answers when it is obvious much OLDER works exist?

by sinis in

just finished up reading the sumerian texts posted on a site, as well as the vedic books.

it is interesting to note that "fables" or works of antiquity, written down, that are much older than the bible, ot included, paint a different picture.

why, and i still cannot wrap my mind around this, do people let the bible be the answer for everything, when it is quite obvious that there are works pre-dating the bible?.

Giordano

tec, it looks like my post wasn't entirerly correct. I thought I double checked the scource. When I have time I'll double double check.

13

telling kids 'my story' how honest should i be?

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

i am writing to my kids.

i have found it a good way to reach them with feelings at times and to let them know what is going on without emotions involved.. i have always told my kids that when and if they ever want to know what happened, ie; why i left their mother and the witnesses all they have to do is ask, and that i would be open and honest.. i feel that i am running out of time with them, esp my son who is so busy working, partying and chasing his girl that i don't see him like i used to.

so busy that he is not thinking and i am sure he will get baptised sooner than later to be in good with his jw girlfriend, and no asking is forthcoming.

Giordano

Let me put it this way OZ. There was a church that at the end of a spirited sermon folks were expected to step up and confess their sins.

So a lady gets up and cries out that she committed adultery and the minister and the congregation shout out "tell it all sister tell it all". And someone else stands up and says that they cursed god and once again everyone shouts "tell it brother tell it all".

And then an older man stands up and says "I've committed fornication with my goat", and........there's dead silence. Finally the minister clears his throat and says "If I was you I don't think I'd be telling that one".

7

1932-1971 how was the congregation run?

by pirata in

the arrangement for body of elders and deacons / minsisterial servants existed pre-1932 (democratically elected) and post-1971 ("theocratically" appointed).. are there any here who remembers how things were run from 1932-1971?

i see mention of the "congregation overseer" and a committee of men to carry out his instructions, but not too clear on much beyond this.

did the congregatino overseer pretty much run the show and make all the decisions?

Giordano

Back in the late 1950's to about 1967 or so we had as best as I can recollect: The District servant, the circuit servant, At the congo level, the presiding minister, the assistant presiding minister, the bible study servant, that was your committee, the ministry school servant, the book study servant, the book and magazine servant (I think that one was called something else). We were just looney with servants.

Maybe someone else will recall some of those titles. "Did the congregation overseer pretty much run the show and make all the decisions? Did the position rotate?"

Yes, the presiding minister called the shots and his position did not rotate. I remember how disappointed my brother-in-law was when the Elder arrangement started. He'd been top dog for a decade, that was His congregation! LOL

40

Why do people look to the Bible for answers when it is obvious much OLDER works exist?

by sinis in

just finished up reading the sumerian texts posted on a site, as well as the vedic books.

it is interesting to note that "fables" or works of antiquity, written down, that are much older than the bible, ot included, paint a different picture.

why, and i still cannot wrap my mind around this, do people let the bible be the answer for everything, when it is quite obvious that there are works pre-dating the bible?.

Giordano

tec, I followed your advice and came across this: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm

Views about the linkage between Krishna and Christ : Krishna was born, lived and died at least 14 centuries before Christ. Thus, if there has been any migration of beliefs between Hinduism and Christianity, the source is Hinduism.

Here are some amazing coincidences:

	#6 & 45: Yeshua and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God.
	7: Both was sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man.
	8 & 46: Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity.
	13, 15, 16 & 23: His adoptive human father was a carpenter.
	18: A spirit or ghost was their actual father.
	21: Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent.
	27 & 28: Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star.
	30 to 34: Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna's parents stayed in Mathura.
	41 & 42: Both Yeshua and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted.
	56: Both were identified as "the seed of the woman bruising the serpent's head."
	58: Jesus was called "the lion of the tribe of Judah." Krishna was called "the lion of the tribe of Saki."
	60: Both claimed: "I am the Resurrection."
	64: Both referred to themselves having existed before their birth on earth.
	66: Both were "without sin."
	72: Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine.
	76, 77, & 78: They were both considered omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
	83, 84, & 85: Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured "all manner of diseases."
	86 & 87: Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead.
	101: Both selected disciples to spread his teachings.
	109 to 112: Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners.
	115: Both encountered a Gentile woman at a well.
	121 to 127: Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies.
	128 to 131: Both descended into Hell, and were resurrected. Many people witnessed their ascensions into heaven.

If one were to delete from the Gospels the events in Jesus' life that seem to originate in Krishna's story, one would basically end up with a story of:

	A very human, itinerant, Jewish, rabbi-healer.
	A teacher who largely followed the teachings of Hillel -- a liberal Jewish rabbi from the 1st century BCE.
	An observant Jew who had a special relationship with God -- a kinship so close that Jesus referred to God by the familiar term "Abba."

40

Why do people look to the Bible for answers when it is obvious much OLDER works exist?

by sinis in

just finished up reading the sumerian texts posted on a site, as well as the vedic books.

it is interesting to note that "fables" or works of antiquity, written down, that are much older than the bible, ot included, paint a different picture.

why, and i still cannot wrap my mind around this, do people let the bible be the answer for everything, when it is quite obvious that there are works pre-dating the bible?.

Giordano

I always wondered how someone could be so dumb as to post a blank message ..........just found out!

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

"We know that the early Christians lived within pagan communities. Jewish scriptural beliefs coupled with the pagan myths of the time give sufficient information about how such a religion could have formed. Many of the Hellenistic and pagan myths parallel so closely to the alleged Jesus that to ignore its similarities means to ignore the mythological beliefs of history. Dozens of similar savior stories propagated the minds of humans long before the alleged life of Jesus. Virtually nothing about Jesus "the Christ" came to the Christians as original or new.

For example, the religion of Zoroaster, founded circa 628-551 B.C.E. in ancient Persia, roused mankind in the need for hating a devil, the belief of a paradise, last judgment and resurrection of the dead. Mithraism, an offshoot of Zoroastrianism probably influenced early Christianity. The Magi described in the New Testament appears as Zoroastrian priests. Note the word "paradise" came from the Persian pairidaeza.

Osiris, Hercules, Mithra, Hermes, Prometheus, Perseus and others compare to the Christian myth. According to Patrick Campbell of The Mythical Jesus, all served as pre-Christian sun gods, yet all allegedly had gods for fathers, virgins for mothers; had their births announced by stars; got born on the solstice around December 25th; had tyrants who tried to kill them in their infancy; met violent deaths; rose from the dead; and nearly all got worshiped by "wise men" and had allegedly fasted for forty days. [McKinsey, Chapter 5]

The pre-Christian cult of Mithra had a deity of light and truth, son of the Most High, fought against evil, presented the idea of the Logos. Pagan Mithraism mysteries had the burial in a rock tomb, resurrection, sacrament of bread & water (Eucharist), the marking on the forehead with a mystic mark, the symbol of the Rock, the Seven Spirits and seven stars, all before the advent of Christianity.

40

Why do people look to the Bible for answers when it is obvious much OLDER works exist?

by sinis in

just finished up reading the sumerian texts posted on a site, as well as the vedic books.

it is interesting to note that "fables" or works of antiquity, written down, that are much older than the bible, ot included, paint a different picture.

why, and i still cannot wrap my mind around this, do people let the bible be the answer for everything, when it is quite obvious that there are works pre-dating the bible?.