Posts by Giordano

94

A belated welcome Burnedout! I wasn't an elder, we didn't have that title back in the mid sixties but I served where the need was great, pioneered for four years and held three major congregation positions including assn't presiding minister as it was called. Perhaps I was an Elder lite. I gave talks all over the circuit and found that I preferred giving the talks then listening to them. Eventually the inconsistent teachings and issues like Blood convinced me and my wife that it wasn't what we thought it was. That in fact it could at times be a dangerous death cult. We left some 43 years ago just in time for the first Woodstock.

How badly did I want to get out? Let me put it this way, Vietnam was raging and I would lose my ministerial status and they'd announced that Armageddon would arrive in 1975! I was laughing as I walked out of the KH for the last time.

50

Resigned

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i finally resigned as an elder.

my conscience wouldn't allow me to continue.

i've battled for years trying to reconcile the fallacies of the wt society with my own personal beliefs.

Giordano

I respect your feelings and your decision to step away from a position of authority. Your concern for others (one reason you mentioned for staying in) and your concern to not mislead people out in service had you doing an exhausting balancing act. No wonder you feel better......... you got off the high wire. Now you'll have to engineer your departure from the WT circus.

33

What keeps a JW in the religion? A new angle.

by Hobo Ken in

there are many reasons why but i wonder if there could be a dominant mental mechanism at work?.

i've done a bit of research and written this article on the subject.. the comparisons between stockholm's syndrome and jw behaviour are striking.. what keeps a jw in the religion?.

matt.

Giordano

Hobo great job!!!

Might this be part of what keeps the other percentage of JW's in place? A review of an interesting point of view from the True Believer by Eric Hoffer

"Perhaps the most important insight in the book--and it is very hard to settle on just one--is that the members of mass movements, who ostensibly seek to better the lot of all mankind, are motivated not by altruism but by selfishness. They join such movements not because they believe in any particular ideals or goals but because they do not believe in themselves :

Unless a man has the talents to make something of himself, freedom is an irksome burden...We join
a mass movement to escape from individual responsibility, or, in the words of an ardent young
Nazi, 'to be free from freedom.' It was not sheer hypocrisy when the rank-and-file Nazis declared
themselves not guilty of all the enormities they had committed. They considered themselves
cheated and maligned when made to shoulder responsibility for obeying orders. Had they not
joined the Nazi movement in order to be free from responsibility?

-----------------

The less justified a man is in claiming excellence for his own self, the more ready he is to claim all
excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or his holy cause.

-----------------

A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his
mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business.

With these startling thoughts, Eric Hoffer.............. stood conventional wisdom on it's collective head and threw down a challenge which has never been adequately answered.

38

When did you stand up and say No More to the GB and Witness world, mine was in 2000

by designs in

Giordano

About the same time as Sister Band on the Run 1966 or 1967. I remember they had announced 1975 as the end plus Vietnam was in full tilt. Dumb time to haul my draft age ass out but my wife and I were done with the foolishness of it all. The blood issue was unaccceptable......... I wouldn't sacrifice my newly born son and by that time he earned me a pass with the draft so we wound up potentially saving one anothers life. I never thought about that before I'll have to share that with him.

Two books helped, The true Believer by Eric Hoffer (which doesn't even mention the JW's) and the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer. Both books, for different reasons, gave me the rational, the world view and the understanding of why people become true believers and how a god can simply ignor human suffering. Both helped us to drop out of a religion we were each introduced to as young children and leave everyone we knew and loved behind.

It turned out to be the best decision we ever made.

17

How Do You Feel About Your Country?

by sizemik in

jw
friends

there is such an international flavour on this board .

and i really love that.. as an xjw .

how do you feel these day's about your country .

Giordano

American. Very proud of my country, an incredible melting pot. But we have got to stop getting into needless wars. In all of our wars only two or three were justified. Before going to war, propping up our banks and debating health care we should first consult with Canada, they are now the adults in this hemisphere.

160

Your best one sentence JW comeback contest

by moshe in

jw
friends

i am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.

ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.

moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?

Giordano

"You're like a tornado of bullshit right now. We'll talk again after your bullshit dies out over someone else's house." (Justins dad)

29

Hi everyone. Wanted to officially intro myself. Well at least give you: In the Beginning...

by AK MCGRATH in

jw
friends

well, i'm going to break this up, because if anyone has read any of my posts, you know i can be long-winded.

yep, i'm the person that can leave a minute or two message on a v.m.. i have been on this board for a month or two and wanted to make sure i'd be sticking around before i intro'd myself, so here i am.

grab your favorite beverage, it's gonna be a long one.. in the beginning.... i learned of the "truth" through a co-worker.

Giordano

Welcome and looking forward to the next chapter!

17

Anyone else excited about 'The Hunger Games'?

by sd-7 in

i'm trying to figure out if i'm the only one.

it actually feels weird because i would assume this is geared at teenage girls, not, like...28.8 year old men.

but it seemed like an awesome adventure story, the best i've read apart from some of the truly great star wars novels (the best ones are largely written by matthew stover).

Giordano

Yes I am looking forward to it. I read The Hunger Games and it was a great read. These brief reviews from Amazon readers should bring everyone up to date. The movie has the potential to be great because the book is so visual it will lend itself to the movie.

http://www.amazon.com/Hunger-Games-Suzanne-Collins/product-reviews/0439023521/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_5?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addFiveStar

"The 74th Annual Hunger Games are soon to begin. The Hunger Games are a fight to the death. In the new country of Panem, in the ruins of North America, each year as punishment for a rebellion and as a control mechanism, the Capitol forces each of the 12 provinces to draw names of a male and female tribute. The tributes are drawn from all people between the ages of 12 and 18. They receive training, are assessed by the game masters and then the betting begins. The games will be televised and are required viewing for the whole nation. "

"Wow. I was barely able to put this book down for a second after the first few pages got me completely hooked. Suzanne Collins narrative here has an immediacy to it that, when combined with the very dramatic life-or-death plot, is incredibly compelling. It's entertaining, and incredibly disturbing all at once. If this was merely a good read, I would have given it 4 stars, but they say great art leaves you changed after you experience it... and this book definitely did that. Suzanne Collins has, with one amazing work, propelled herself onto my top shelf."

19

Stephen Hawking interview by Guardian: There is no Heaven

by behemot in

jw
friends

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heaven.

Giordano

As Mad Said. Also:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and there's none here"

82

Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

by designs in

Giordano

The US wasn't involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

"The Arabs were kicking Israel's butt during the 1967 war when the U.S. stepped in and overwhelmed their forces."

Israel defeated Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria in 6 days even though out gunned and against a much larger army while having to fight on multiple fronts. It's a well documented war. Including the fact that Isreal attacked first with a massive air attack on Egypts air force.

Allegations of military support from the U.S, U.K. and U.S.S.R. have been disputed. In fact It has also been claimed that the U.S.S.R., in support of its Arab allies, used its naval strength in the Mediterranean to act as a major restraint on the U.S. Navy. [ 105 ] [ 106 ]