Listener

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Posts by Listener

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  30

  The Captive Mind of a former bethalite.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i see years of acute economic crisis ahead for the w.t.

  this is evident with letting go of " volunteer" bethalites throughout the world.

  but my thread is on the consequences to the individual, and the organisation of letting " volunteer" bethalites go.. so what happens to the captive mind of the former bethalite when they are let go from bethel?

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  Listener

  We should be feeling sorry for the ones left at bethel.
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  21

  Is the Borg winding down printing altogether?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the thread about magazines stopping distribution in india reminded me of a recent conversation.

  a local brother said he asked for a copy of the new organisation book for publishers.

  the elder told the brother to print it out if he wanted a physical copy.

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  Listener

  Orphan Crow It wouldn't surprise me if the WTS is getting nailed for tax on printed material.
  In Canada, even if they don't sell a product, they still could be levied a Goods and Services tax on the printed material they produce.
  http://mmoutreachinc.com/nvweb/featureart/wttaxes.html
  Maybe the tax man is catching up to the WTS' tax evasion methods.

  You are definately onto something here.

  In Australia they are registered for GST since 2000 (Goods & Services Tax) and are a Charity (non profit). GST is currently 10%.

  They get to claim back the 10% they paid on all expenses and I doubt they pay 10% on any of their donations.

  What qualifies as a Donation which is not subject to GST is complex but generally applies if the donation is a pure gift, without any expectations for any provisions in return. If the provision is minor (such as a pen advertising the Charity) it is okay.

  This is what one website defines a GST free donation/gift as

  Gifts & Donations
  For a payment (monetary or non-monetary) to be considered a gift or donation, it must be unfettered. Specifically, there must be no obligation on the donee to do anything in recognition of the gift, and no expectation on the part of the donor to receive anything in return for the donation. Whether a payment is a gift, and therefore not subject to GST, depends upon the circumstances surrounding the payment. For a payment not to be subject to GST would require: a payment that is made voluntarily, and not as a result of a prior contractual obligation (written or implied); a payment where the payer does not receive an advantage of a material character by way of return for making the payment; and a payment that essentially arises from benefaction.
  A donor may receive something in return for making a payment with the payment still being treated as a gift, providing the thing received is only of ‘insubstantial’ value. An item of insubstantial value will not provide a donor with a material benefit.

  This is one reason why the Org says to not specify what the donation is for when remitting money to them.

  Funny thing is that if a portion of that donation is not GST free, specifically for printed publications as an expectation which is not insubstantial, then the value would most likely be the market value which would be far greater than the minimal charge they were imposing prior to the donation arrangement.

  There intention was to make it look like JWs were not paying for the literature or specifically donating for the literature but the JWs certainly had the expectation that they would be recieving it, that is the main reason that the WTBTS is there for. The GB had separated itself legally from the WTBTS in 2000 leaving the WTBTS to be virtually a business operation (albeit non profit). The amount of literature given to each JW is significant and could not be considered as a thank you gift from the Organization.

  It would be interesting to know what the situation is regarding the definition of donations and tax in other countries.

  If the Australian Branch suddenly found itself with a huge GST bill for a three year period they would have the option of taking it to Court to dispute it, it would then become public. However, they may choose not to as it would send out a flag for other Countries to examine.

  Again Orphan Crow, I think you are on the right track here.

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  21

  Restructuring Bethel

  by LaFrancia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an announcement to all congregation in italy :.

  the project of a new bethel in italy was allocated .

  the number of temporary special pioneers will be reduced significantly.

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  Listener

  Thanks for explaining SlidingFast. Sounds like a bit of a challenge for someone with little income.
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  21

  Restructuring Bethel

  by LaFrancia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an announcement to all congregation in italy :.

  the project of a new bethel in italy was allocated .

  the number of temporary special pioneers will be reduced significantly.

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  Listener

  I've never heard of a temporary special pioneer. It sounds crazy. Imagine having a temporary regular pioneer, they have a different name for that's an auxiliary pioneer.
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  35

  "The Word" includes the book Vindication!

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

  thanks a bunch!.

  .. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

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  Listener

  Simon says - I would much prefer that you tell us about your friendship with Ray Franz and why you believe he wanted to go back to the ways of Rutherford.

  It is not up to me to say definitively where holy spirit is operating or not operating, at best I can only state where I might feel it is or isn't operating.

  Does his HS operate over the Wtbts? I have no reason to believe that God would not use his HS on occasions just as he might over any other organisation.
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  27

  Samuel Herd's statement about donations and Cialdini's social proof

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  samuel herd made a statement a few weeks ago about halting construction work, laying off bethel workers and reducing printing output: severe cutbacks all round.

  he said, like the head of a household, the gb has to make sure the organisation is living within its means.

  but he added a very careful phrase, something like: "be assured brothers these measures have not been taken as a result of any lack of financial support on your part.

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  Listener

  There was a reason Herd read out a letter, the wording had to be exactly right. It was very calculated.
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  35

  "The Word" includes the book Vindication!

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

  thanks a bunch!.

  .. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

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  Listener

  Simon says, please prove that the holy spirit is not with the Mormons or Ray Franz.
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  37

  Do You Think 10% Tithing is Coming?

  by xjwsrock in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  firstly, there are cash flow problems in wt town.

  i don't think it's necessary to list all the cutbacks and layoffs, but there have been many.. their thirst for money seems higher too in my opinion.

  more entitled may be a better way of putting it.

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  Listener

  Finding a new way to get more money from the sheep is on their agenda. What the next form that will take is not certain but I don't think it will be a set policy of tithing, although it may be suggested.

  The JW religion is more about being a works based religion so it would be hard to continually sell this idea of tithing. They need to come up with the an idea that will make it seem that JWs are providing a sacred service which is clearly identifiable, not just by giving 10% of their income.

  Here's some comments that they have made about sacred service -

  W 76 10/1 re Sacred Service

  Par. 5 “So their doing something of a sacrificial kind would be out of the ordinary, something not carried on in general by the unchristian people of this worldly system of things.”
  Hebrews 13:16 16Moreover, do not forget the doing of good and the sharing of things with others, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”

  W80 8/15

  Par. 3 “Obviously, this has to do specificially with service to God, done out of appreciation for sacred things – something out of the ordinary that calls for the sacrifice of time and energy.

  God's Kingdom Rules

  Yes, relief work is a valuable form of sacred service.—Rom. 12:1, 7; 2 Cor. 8:7; Heb. 13:16.

  W 06 11/01

  Building Kingdom Halls is an important part of our sacred service

  W01 3/15

  • Of course, Bethel is primarily a place where mature Christians render sacred serviceto Jehovah and work in behalf of fellow believers throughout the world.

  
  They've come up with their own logo, JW org and it can be seen wherever JWs are. JWs see it as part of their preaching (or sacred service).

  They've also thrown the JWs into the public with their public preaching work and even shopfronts on occassion or stalls in certain areas. They've started to dwindle down the importance of house to house work.

  Their next step might be to tell JWs that part of their sacred service will now include time set aside to earn money with the specific purpose of donating it to them. They could leave the option of how to do this to the congregations but encourage them that whatever it was, do it in a united way together and with the focus that all money earnt be given to them. The responsibility of how they did this would be completely up to them and that means any taxes/permits/licenses/insurance/complying with laws could not be held against the WTBTS, they would be doing it independently.

  Suggestions such as lamington drives, joint garage sales, sales of other goods produced and sold in joint effort, even small businesses where all profit would be donated. It would need to be all of the net profit otherwise they are doing nothing out of the ordinary (the sacrifice wouldn't be great enough to constitute sacred service)

  They could also sell this to the sheep if they advise them that they could include a small JW literature stand at their stall.

  Because all profits would be going to the WTBTS it would be considered as sacred service and although it may mean less hours in field service, would satisfy the JW's need to be seen as doing 'works befitting a christian' with blessings attached. Working in groups would also be seen as a a 'fine and uplifting' christian work.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
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  32

  Refused to go to meeting wife broke frying pan on my car....now SHE is inactive 4 years my advice!!!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my wife is a stubborn stubborn woman.

  when we got the internet in 1998 i slowly faded due to trying to prove apostates are lairs and scum...only to find they told nothing but "the truth.

  " every qoute was checked and re-checked.

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  Listener

  I couldn't help but smile after reading your post. You must have a very interesting life together.
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  13

  The longest minute?

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  which is longer, a treadmill minute or a microwave minute?.

  ... or every minute of every thursday meeting when you wanted to get back home in time to see red dwarf and some elder who loved the sound of his own voice had the mic..

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  Listener

  LisaRose I'd park the shopping and go elsewhere if after a few minutes the store had made no attempts to resolve the problem. It would probably take up more of my time but if the supermarket isn't prepared to open up another isle then I'm not prepared to give them my money.

  Sometimes that last minute on the treadmill, after setting a goal, can seem like eternity. Sometimes that microwave minute can be way too quick if you choose to do something in the meantime, like washing a few dishes.

  You're posting a lot lately Simon, have you found a few extra minutes in your day?