Posts by Listener

31

2015-11-18-BOE--Credits to jwfacts!

by Atlantis in

thanks to mr. jwfacts we now have a copy of this letter.

i would have posted it on his thread but there was already 2 pages of replies and i didn't think the link would be seen.. thank you again mr. facts!.

.. click the green download button.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/bbduxaa.

Listener

DOT, I telephoned the OAIC this morning, it didn't take long to get through and the lady was very helpful with an excellent understanding of the issues.

She believed that it was within the scope of the Act that the WTBTS could collect the sensitive information however they are not permitted to do this without the consent or knowledge of the individual. They are required to notify the individual of this information gathering and advise what is being collected and for what purpose, unless it was impracticable. Given the circumstances - that a letter was being sent to all congregations, she felt that their organization would not view it as impracticable because they had already demonstrated that they were able to communicate easily by sending out a letter to all congregations and taking that one step further by sending it to all individuals was possible (I did mention that their were over 60,000 members and she saw no reason thy it would be impractiable or unreasonable for individuals to be informed).

She went on further to explain that the Elders collecting this information could also be in breach.

The Act generally applies to organizations with a turnover of over $3 million. The WTBTS Sydney used to claim that their turnover was under this amount as it didn't include donations. Paul Grundy did a lot of research on this and information can be found on his website and includes this comment

In 2009, after a period of 3 years, the Commissioner received legal advice that for a certainty the definition of turnover in the Privacy Act was intended to include donations.

http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/personal-files-privacy-act-1988.php

I said to her that I understand that the individual congregations were established as separate legal entities and that their turnover was likely to be under $3 million each. She said that this did not mean that the Commission would view them as separate and if not, the Elders were subject to the Privacy Act.

She advised that they would investigate the matter if an individual to whom this would affect, wrote/emailed in with the details. If another person wanted to write in they would need to specify to which individual/s this affected and show evidence that they have their permission to write in on their behalf.

-----------------------------------

DOT, notice the clause that I quoted was specifically addressing 'sensitive' information which includes such things as gender, religious and philosophical beliefs and as that it could be argued that activities of the org. are centred around the promotion of specific religious beliefs. The OAIC Officer indicated that the type of information being requested was likely to be within the guidelines.

The area that the OAIC Officer indicated that they could be in breach is found in this section

3.6 An APP entity must collect personal information about an individual only from the individual unless:
(a) if the entity is an agency:
(i) the individual consents to the collection of the information from someone other than the individual; or
(ii) the entity is required or authorised by or under an Australian law, or a court/tribunal order, to collect the information from someone other than the individual; or
(b) it is unreasonable or impracticable to do so.
Solicited personal information
3.7 This principle applies to the collection of personal information that is solicited by an APP entity.

It seems to be a general practice with Australian Government Departments that they want factual cases to be identified for them to take further action. They want names of people who may be affected or of those involved.

31

2015-11-18-BOE--Credits to jwfacts!

by Atlantis in

thanks to mr. jwfacts we now have a copy of this letter.

i would have posted it on his thread but there was already 2 pages of replies and i didn't think the link would be seen.. thank you again mr. facts!.

.. click the green download button.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/bbduxaa.

Listener

DOT, If you continue on from Sect 3.3 that you quoted from the Privacy Act it appears that it doesn't apply. I've highlighted and underlined the sections that may be applicable.

3.3 An APP entity must not collect sensitive information about an individual unless:
(a) the individual consents to the collection of the information and:
(i) if the entity is an agency—the information is reasonably necessary for, or directly related to, one or more of the entity’s functions or activities; or
(ii) if the entity is an organisation—the information is reasonably necessary for one or more of the entity’s functions or activities; or
(b) subclause 3.4 applies in relation to the information.
3.4 This subclause applies in relation to sensitive information about an individual if:
(a) the collection of the information is required or authorised by or under an Australian law or a court/tribunal order; or
(b) a permitted general situation exists in relation to the collection of the information by the APP entity; or
(c) the APP entity is an organisation and a permitted health situation exists in relation to the collection of the information by the entity; or
(d) the APP entity is an enforcement body and the entity reasonably believes that:
(i) if the entity is the Immigration Department—the collection of the information is reasonably necessary for, or directly related to, one or more enforcement related activities conducted by, or on behalf of, the entity; or
(ii) otherwise—the collection of the information is reasonably necessary for, or directly related to, one or more of the entity’s functions or activities; or
(e) the APP entity is a non‑profit organisation and both of the following apply:
(i) the information relates to the activities of the organisation;
(ii) the information relates solely to the members of the organisation, or to individuals who have regular contact with the organisation in connection with its activities.
Note: For permitted general situation, see section 16A. For permitted health situation, see section 16B.

A JW is not a member of the WTBTS Sydney Branch but as to whether they have 'regular contact with the organization in connection with its activities' could possibly be argued. I would think that the WTBTS would argue that letters are regularly read out that have been sent by the Branch and most of the publications would come from there also.

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Listener

Here is an unsubstantiated claim that they make

9.26 On a global basis the honesty, candour, and quality of the elders’ evidence should be acknowledged by the Commission along the lines of that reported by Janet Fife-Yeomans at page 32 of “The Daily Telegraph” on 1 August, 2015: While people from other churches dragged to the Royal Commission have obviously been coached by PR gurus and lawyers in how to present themselves and say the right thing, the Jehovah’s Witnesses were totally devoid of artifice.

Forget that the whole article that Yeomans wrote was scathing of the JWs at the Commission and called them hypocrites..

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Listener

Here's a good indication of their attitude

9.304 The suggested finding wrongly assumes a broad obligation upon Jehovah’s Witnesses “to protect children in the community” but fails to identify how such an obligation exists.

Do they really need to be told why they have an obligation to help protect the community?

9

Bethelites being sent to Wallkill and Paterson

by Angelclare in

this is my first post but i've been lurking for some time.

ive just spoken to a friend of mine from my jw days who isnt aware that i no longer associate.

hes the coordinator of the body of elders in his congregation so i suppose he does know something of whats going on at the wt.

Listener

Sounds like they have to vacate some Brooklyn property as soon as possible.

20

UPDATE APRIL 2015 New Documents Re: Charity Commission Investigation into Watchtower Britain

by jwleaks in

an updated list of documents relating to the charity commission investigation into watchtower of britain and jehovah's witnesses are available on jw leaks.. jw leaks.

original charity commission press release.

press release.

Listener

I would take tornintwo's advice and contact the commission directly. I wouldn't trust Cedars with personal information.

23

Anointed Directing the Anointed?

by compound complex in

[.

] resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

revelation: its grand climax at hand!, pages, 124, 125, paragraph 17..

Listener

This is where their speculation gets them into trouble. They don't know who is communicating with them?

It is clear that whoever is communicating with them is not from God otherwise they would not be relaying false information.

72

My RC hearing brought forward. Will be in two weeks

by umbertoecho in

through this forum of wonderful freaks, i have met someone who is coming with me to my hearing.

initially i was slated for next year, but will be attending in two weeks time.

all is in place from travel vouchers, support, where to go ............very efficient and well done.

Listener

Child sex education should be made compulsory in school and as a part of home schooling but it should be presented by a professional. This education should be introduced at various stages with the early years being as an alert to dangers.

The idea of a no home visit register is good. We already have a no phone call register and this could just be extended.

Physical discipline should also be reportable.

72

Did you have a bad reaction to flu shot?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

.

thanks for sharing.. coco.

Listener

I've had the flu shot each year for the last 8 years and find the only reaction is a sore arm, where it is injected for about a day. This is the common reaction from all those I know who have had it.

There was one year when my arm was not sore and I wonder if the vaccine was ineffective. The vaccine is meant to be stored in a fridge.

My mother, who has always been very cautious with medicines, said to me that she didn't think it was a good idea to have the flu shot if you were younger and didn't not have an immune deficiency. Her reasoning was that it is better to allow the body to develop it's own immune system to be stronger. Having the flu would allow this to happen. I can't fault her reasoning.

For those in Australia, the we could get the flu vaccine injection at the chemist for the first time this year. It was available to be done at the chemist several weeks before the Doctor's surgeries had a supply. I tried to find out why and if the vaccine was being provided by two different manufacturers. The pharmacist couldn't tell me (which I find incredible as he purchases these supplies),

Not long ago, they were encouraging infants and children to be immunized which I don't believe is necessary and possible not a good thing. There was an alarming amount of babies and young children that died as a direct result. The Health authority advised that there was a problem with the vaccine and it needed further development. It has taken several years to come up with a safer vaccine. Whether they have or not, I don't know, it could be that parents have stopped having their kids injected.

The number of people hospitalized resulting from the flu seems to be on the increase and the flu seems to be more severe. This may be due to reporters trying to make headlines or propaganda. But I do think the flu is more severe.

11

What would happen if you started calling jw's "sheep" rather than brother or sister?

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

following on from the excellent thread started by open mind.... rather than calling the cult members brother smith etc what about calling them "sheep smith".

sheep jones?.

sheep morris the third?.

Listener

That is funny. They number all their forms why not assign a number to each of the sheep. It would give a whole new perspective on counting sheep at night.

The children could be little lambs and the oldies, mutton.