Listener

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Posts by Listener

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  14

  Warwick Photo Gallery 4 (May Through August 2015)

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  full set: http://imgur.com/a/djhfe.

  sample:.

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  Listener

  It's not like Bethelites, including the GB don't get holiday leave. I think Ray Franz said they got substantially more.

  They could use that time to volunteer at the site, just like most other JWs do.
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  133

  The new service meeting

  by John Aquila in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i wanted to relate an experience that happened this morning.

  it is regarding the new format for the meeting on thursdays in my area.

  its not word for word but im summarizing what i heard, the best i can remember.

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  Listener

  These are amazing ladies. Even though they are over 70 years of age all 11 manage to get together at your mums place and in the morning. Did they come in a bus?

  They are a very active group, it must be interesting spending time with them. I love how they've even got time to find you a mate.
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  64

  "Apostates " how honest are we?

  by closed in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as i mentioned in another post i used to serve as an elder for 2 decades.

  i was involved in a number of jc.

  some i dealt with are good friends now.

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  Listener

  Closed, you state that you are still in. How honest do you feel you are yourself? Do you feel like you are living a lie?

  The point here is that there can be many reasons why a person may appear dishonest but if we knew their reasoning we might not think so badly of them.
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  91

  Is the Watchtower organisation facing the biggest crisis of its history?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  recent developments make me think they might be.

  the problems they are facing are not just lack of funds but also draining authority, and the two could be a heady and explosive mix.

  one of the best analyses ever written of the watchtower was a book called "trumpet of prophecy" by sociologist james beckford in the 1970s.

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  Listener

  Some of us can remember when they stopped people playing music in the congregations and replaced it with recordings. It didn't go down too well.

  Now they are stripping away even more from the individual congregations and introducing more recorded videos. It's becoming a little too mechanical and I doubt it's going to help.
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  9

  Dis-association Vs Inactivity

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it just me or is this just really bad double talk?.

  9.372 moreover, the suggested finding has no connection with preventing or responding to child sexual abuse and, furthermore, appears not to appreciate the difference between disassociation and inactivity.

  as was explained, if someone decides to no longer associate with jehovahs witnesses that is a personal decision and no disciplinary action is taken against that person.

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  Listener

  The Hermit, a similar situation happened in my own family. Even more ridiculous because I was never officially disfellowshipped. They needed two witnesses and my sister wouldn't testify. I was shunned but two of my siblings that had never been baptized lived a very interesting life without the same repercussions.

  The best thing is not to get baptized in the first place. Pushing to have children baptized is so wrong.

  Even if the baptized person stops 'sinning' it makes no difference unless they get re-instated by the Elders.

  Very little is left up to the individual conscience
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  20

  Have you got a cow that you could sell ?

  by pepperheart in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you got a cow that you could sell for the gb they really really need the money

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  Listener

  It must be pretty bad when kids have to start selling their gifts and personal possessions. Maybe Lett sold his gold ring, he wasn't wearing it in the last video.
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  13

  What would you like to see the Watchtower Society implement that would give you a dignified way to leave/stop being a Jehovah's Witness?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses do not provide a dignified resignation process for members who wish to resign/quit being a jehovah's witnesses.you are not given any good choices.

  you can either: disassociate yourself,fade,become inactive or move to another city/state/country where you won't be bothered or found out.. if you quit your job/employment, stop attending a book club or bowling league,or quit a lawn service company, newspaper delivery service,you wouldn't see your employer or friends sending out a written notice to anyone to stop all association with you or have little contact.you would sue them for slander.you have a right to quit any association or contract (when it expires or doesn't meet the terms any longer) whenever you wish.. what would you like to see the watchtower society implement that would give you a dignified way to leave/stop being a jehovah's witness?.

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  Listener

  I've just written a post that could possibly provide an alternative but I want to hear what you guys think and improve on. It was prompted from a letter I read on another forum and from re-reading the comments made publicly in the WTBTS's submission.

  It is here

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6281911886413824/dis-association-vs-inactivity
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  9

  Dis-association Vs Inactivity

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it just me or is this just really bad double talk?.

  9.372 moreover, the suggested finding has no connection with preventing or responding to child sexual abuse and, furthermore, appears not to appreciate the difference between disassociation and inactivity.

  as was explained, if someone decides to no longer associate with jehovahs witnesses that is a personal decision and no disciplinary action is taken against that person.

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  Listener

  Is it just me or is this just really bad double talk?

  9.372 Moreover, the suggested finding has no connection with preventing or responding to child sexual abuse and, furthermore, appears not to appreciate the difference between disassociation and inactivity. As was explained, if someone decides to no longer associate with Jehovah’s Witnesses that is a personal decision and no disciplinary action is taken against that person.

  If a person chooses to no longer associate with JWs that is DISASSOCIATION.

  This is the dictionary definition of disassociation "To remove from association; dissociate".

  9.373 For example, Mr Geoffrey Jackson stated:283 “I thought I made it quite clear I don’t agree with that supposition”. We do not have a “so-called spiritual police force” to chase after ones who no longer want to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
  9.374 For example, Mr O’Brien stated: 284 “They don’t have to disassociate themselves to stop associating. They don’t lose their spiritual or familial association by being inactive.”

  Again O'Brien's comment is nonsense. Disassociating is the same thing as not associating.

  Is this what they really meant to say or are they just caught up with their own nonsensical procedures? Looking at the Shepherding the flock book makes it a little clearer.

  1. Whereas disfellowshipping is an action taken by a judicial committee against an unrepentant wrongdoer, disassociation is an action taken by an individual who no longer desires to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. (1 John 2:19) Actions that may indicate disassociation indude the following:
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  • Making known a firm decision to be known no longer as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. If the individual is agreeable, the committee should first try to speak with him and provide spiritual assistance. (GaL 6:1) Does he really desire to disassociate himself, or does he simply no longer want to associate actively with the congregation? Is the desire to disassociate prompted by doubts or discouragement? If he is adamant in his position, he should be encouraged to put his request in writing and sign it. If he does not, then the witnesses to his request should prepare a statement for the confidential files and sign it.

  According to them there is a difference in not associating with the congregation (which they call being inactive) and disassociating. Their own definition of disassociating is no longer being known as a JW.

  Although we know what they mean to say, what they do say is not correct. It comes down to the use of the word disassociation. It is not the correct terminology.

  Firstly, is the misapplication of the word disassociating intentional? Absolutely, many JWs associate the word with being inactive according to it's true meaning - a person who is not associating. This results in many inactive JWs being treated the same as a disfellowshipped person.

  Secondly, since the reality is that the term disassociation applies equeally to a person who no longer wants to be a JW and to a person who is inactive, what would be a more correct terminology to use in the first instance? I think 'resign' would be more accurate.

  Had they been using this term then there would have no misunderstanding in the JC and no confusion about treating inactive ones differently.

  This brings up another possibility for those wishing to disassociate without the severe repercussions that follow. A poster on another forum shared a letter that they wrote to their parents but I think it is just as appropriate to write it to the Elders.

  This is where the original letter is and written by 'lightsgettingbetter'

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3zrzrd/devout_mothers_response_to_a_letter_outlining_our/

  It could be modified to read:

  To the BOE,

  Out of respect for your loving concern for our family, it is time that we share with you our current situation.

  As of now, we are no longer active within the congregation.

  The reason is a personal matter. We will not be discussing what the reasons are.

  We are not disassociating ourselves.

  We have not caused any problems within the congregation. There is no one in the congregation that we have problems with. We have done no wrong doing within the congregation.

  

The Awake, July 2009, it clearly states “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family” and goes on to say: “God allows each person the freedom to choose how they will respond”.

  It is clear from this that our choice to be inactive is our own.

  Furthermore, these statements were included in a submission made by the WTBTS at the recent Australian Royal Commission into child abuse.

  9.372 .... As was explained, if someone decides to no longer associate with Jehovah’s Witnesses that is a personal decision and no disciplinary action is taken against that person...

  9.374 For example, Mr O’Brien stated: “They don’t have to disassociate themselves to stop associating. They don’t lose their spiritual or familial association by being inactive.”

  Therefore, there is no doctrinal or scriptural reason for you to indicate to the congregation, our family members and our friends that there should be no communication with us, we are simply exercising the freedom granted to each human.

  In fact, in instances where the Bro's or Sisters who would otherwise shun us or approach you for advice, that you make clear to them that inactive ones should not be treated as either disfellowshipped or disassociated ones and that there is no scriptural backing for them in doing so. We feel assured that as you are loving individuals who are taking the lead that you would encourage good christian behaviour.

  At this same Royal Commission hearing, Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson gave testimony to the following -

  We do not have a “so-called spiritual police force” to chase after ones who no longer want to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  As this courtesy is extended to disassociated ones we would request that the same be extended to us as inactive ones.

  In a peaceful spirit, we request that you do not contact us to either discuss this or provide us with any form of 'sherpherding'.
  

  Yours sincerely ....

  This is by no means a foolproof option for those that want to disassociate and hopefully avoid shunning, particularly from family but feel that they need to stop the elders from annoying them. However, if it backfires the individual/family will have some strong basis for comeback.

  What do you guys think? Is it worth suggesting to some who feel they need to do something and helps to clarify their position? After all, is it really necessary to state that you no longer want to be known as a JW when a true christian baptism was not to an organization, to be known as a JW regardless of what the organization would like people to think?

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  37

  Are Bethelites Buying and Preparing their own Food?

  by TakeOffTheCrown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  samuel herd made the following statement at the 2015 annual meeting regarding the reduction of services at bethel.. we will be reducing personnel at bethel.

  some bethel family members will be invited to serve in the field.

  in addition to their regular work, bethel family members will be caring for many of the services that were previously provided by fellow bethelites.. .

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  Listener

  I can understand your curiosity TakeofTheCrown.

  I expect in the future we will hear some funny stories. Like the amount of policing they will need to do. I wonder if they've updated their Bethel manual already.
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  39

  Hello, I'm new here too!

  by redpilltwice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everybody, 1st post here.

  20 years jw, elder for 6 years, regular pioneer for 3 years, have always been following the 2012 candace conti abuse case with much interest, especially since the case suddenly disappeared from www.watchtower.com's news section (thanks brother j. r. brown, office of public information, because it led me to "worldly" websites for more info), leading to more and more dissatisfaction , leading to jwfacts, jwsurvey, ad1914, wtdocuments etc., leading to my awakening about 4 months ago, now fading faster and faster to zero meetings and zero field service...and you know what?

  it feels good!.

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  Listener

  Welcome RedPillTwice.

  Good to hear that the guys who have spent so much time maintaining their websites are proving to be a good source of information.