Posts by Listener

49

The ''dreaded'' birthday cake

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower—study edition | september 2023. study article 39. let mildness be your strength.

11 if a workmate asks, for example, why we do not celebrate birthdays, consider: could he be wondering whether we are allowed to have a good time?

or might he feel that our position will dampen the company’s team spirit?

Listener

"We may be able to ease our workmate’s concerns by expressing how much we appreciate his interest in fellow workers and assuring him that we want to enjoy a pleasant environment at work"

Not engaging in office celebrations doesn't make for a pleasant environment except what the Watchtower really means is that a pleasant environment is where they are not persecuted or ridiculed for their beliefs.

They often encourage JWs to see them as 'worldly people' and separate from them, not even having lunch with them in the lunch room.

26

Did Geoffrey Jackson lie under oath at the ARC?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i understand he intimated that the faithful slave was not the only spokesman for jehovah god.

he also intimated that corporal punishment was not advocated by the wts.

we're these lies or deception or did they represent the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?.

Listener

Dreary. you say that the org. has changed their views since the 80s and 90s. You then show a number of quotes that explain how discipline should never be abusive.

The only conclusion that can be made from this is that you admit prior to the 80s the org. taught parents to be abusive when it came to discipline.

Interesting,

29

The FDS Photoshop

by Vanderhoven7 in

for those interested in the latest version of the faithful slave.

.

from the february 2024 watchtower .

Listener

That's funny, the members still there from 2014 haven't aged at all. It's a miracle.

26

Did Geoffrey Jackson lie under oath at the ARC?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i understand he intimated that the faithful slave was not the only spokesman for jehovah god.

he also intimated that corporal punishment was not advocated by the wts.

we're these lies or deception or did they represent the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?.

Listener

Yes, he lied about corporal punishment. The following is part of what he said -

In relation to Proverbs 13:34 about 'whoever holds back his rod hates his son he was questioned and responded "It absolutely is not about inflicting corporal punishment" Then he was asked "Do you accept corporal punishment' and he replies "No" ..."Not personally, no, and not as an organization, we don't encourage it"

For years the organization has referred to the rod of discipline being physical punishment and also includes other forms of discipline or teaching.

W 0611/1

With regard to discipline, the Bible states: “The rod and reproof are what give wisdom.” (Proverbs 29:15) However, not all children need physical punishment. Proverbs 17:10 tells us: “A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times.”

They have never said that Prov 13:34 does not include the use of corporal punishment.

The above Watchtower quote also promotes the idea of physical punishment. It simply says it may not always be needed. Which is not the same as not encouraging it because it is doing that very thing.

It doesn't matter if he accepts it or doesn't, that may well be true that he doesn't we wouldn't know if he was lying about that or not but we do know what the organizations view is and they encourage it but with the qualifier of it not being required all the time.

.

12

"...The Most Important Day of the Year" Watchtower January,2024

by Listener in

what a mockery that statement is to over 99% of their followers.

there is nothing biblically that makes the jw memorial day important to anyone that does not partake.

they still continue to say .

Listener

You're very kind Atlantis and if it wasn't for the great guys like you and your team, there wouldn't be much to research.

12

"...The Most Important Day of the Year" Watchtower January,2024

by Listener in

what a mockery that statement is to over 99% of their followers.

there is nothing biblically that makes the jw memorial day important to anyone that does not partake.

they still continue to say .

Listener

What a mockery that statement is to over 99% of their followers. There is nothing biblically that makes the JW memorial day important to anyone that does not partake.

They still continue to say

It is the only event that Jesus specifically commanded his followers to observe.

Since they don't partake they are not followers of Jesus' command although the Watchtower tricks them into thinking that they are.

It is a ritual that they observe worldwide with instructions to all congregations to follow "the same pattern" by singing two songs, passing the emblems, and saying 'amen' to four prayers.

This is what they have said about rituals in the past. The Watchtower 83 11/1 states

Burns and other Catholic authorities may feel that a host of other “ritualistic” things can be helpful in worshiping God. But note what Jesus Christ said about “the kind of worshipper the Father wants.” To a woman who thought worship at a particular mountain was necessary, Jesus declared: “God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth.” Worshiping “in spirit” clearly rules out the use of visual aids, as is also indicated by the apostle Paul, who said that Christians walk “by faith and not by sight.”—John 4:23, 24; 2 Corinthians 5:7, Catholic Jerusalem Bible.

The passing of the emblems is much more than a 'visual aid' it is very hands on as well and as noted by many ex JWs, a visual sign of rejection.

The article states that there are questions that people they invite might have and they included examples which are -

"What will happen at the event" How long will it last? Is there a dress code? Is there and admittance fee? Will collections be taken?"

The Watchtower really does have money on its mind.

Further into the article they explain to Elders that they need to be targeting inactive JWs. They are really getting extreme. Here are some of their instructions -

"Give them loving attention...Assure them of your affection and your desire to help in any way you can...After the memorial, keep in touch with these dear brothers and sisters."

These are JWs that aren't d'fd but no longer participate, even still they are told to show emotions that don't exist. But worse, this is left to the Elders and not to other JWs who personally know them, maybe for many years and have spent much time with them and who really did love them at one point in time.

Instead, all the other JWs are told to show their love to them only when they actually attend the memorial.

40

PIMI wife told to go against her husband and take the vaccines?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

if a pimi sister has been told by her unbelieving husband not to take these experimental vaccines then what is official jw policy in this situation?.

should she go against her husband and tell him i will do what the men at my church tell me?.

what on earth will the husband think then?

Listener

I agree with Samcats. Her husband was a control freak.

27

Pornography in the Marriage

by LostintheFog1999 in

the magazine that they are studying in the congregation this month has an article at the back about how pornography in a marriage could damage the relationship.. there's one piece of advice that sounds rather scary, the wt suggests that the couple should "consider asking an elder with whom you are both comfortable to sit in and guide your discussions for a time.".

how many of you would want an elder present in your home while you and your partner discussed your personal sexual cravings and the type of porn videos being watched?.

Listener

They are worried about porn in the marriage, what about abuse? They have interesting priorities and there has to be a reason why.

63

Leaked. Nov 6th Secret Boxes

by Beth Sarim in

jw
friends

self-aware npc has an upload that the ""top-secret"' elders only secret boxes is a drum roll here......a new brochure.....ta dahhhh🤪.

i mean how more dramatic can we get..

Listener

The new "Love people, make disciples" brochure has been leaked and can be found at https://avoidjw.org/whats-new/love-people-new-publication/

It's a recruiting brochure where JWs are initially instructed to be people focused, natural and to basically tell them what they want to hear then once they've been snared by means of accepting book studies, they are instructed not to talk too much and stick to the study material.

The brochure is a basic guide as to how to go about their preaching work, it's all been said before but suggests they will no longer have campaigns where they focus on a particular 'memorized program'. Of course they will, they are always wishy washy in their approach. Still, they are taking a lighter approach to preaching. The instruction is to engage in chit chat, focusing on the individual and what they would like to tak about. Then they can edge their way into mentioning a 'basic truth'.

There is no focus on the real Bible message. It does mention the term 'good news' but it does not discuss what it is. No mention of the gospel is made at all in all of its 32 pages. It does not talk about faith in Jesus and the significance of his ransom sacrifice in the forgiveness of sins or God's free gift and growing in our love towards God. Yet they talk about reaching a persons heart at the initial stages. Nor does it mention his rulership as King. There is a section devoted to 'Truths we love to teach' which they are instructing JWs to speak about - BASIC TRUTHS. Under "Jesus" they only include these four basic truths about him - He is a Great Teacher, He foretold events we see today, He is God's son and He is not God Almighty. At the very best, it's not until a person gets to the stage of committing to studying do they have the potential of hearing about Christ's sacrifice and God's love.

83

Thought on “0 hours” reporting

by FFGhost in

so everyone knows the “big news” of this past weekend, no more reporting of hours, placements, return visits, etc.

beginning november 1, jws just tick a box indicating whether they “shared in any form of the ministry during the month”.. so there was a brief comment by a redditor that seems like a brief joke “throwaway comment” but after thinking about it….why not?.

the idea is, what is “any form of the ministry”?

Listener

The wording on reporting on the new form is "any form of the ministry"

How will they define what 'ministry' is in this context?

This is from a Watchtower in 1971 8/1, an article that defines what it is to minister and in part states

"The expression “to minister” in this text translates a Greek verb (di·a·ko·neʹo) meaning literally “to serve.” Yes, basically the Christian ministry is Christian service. If we keep this in mind we will be better able to grasp the full meaning of such ministry" It clearly explains in the article that it is not limited to field ministry and gives a number of examples as to what ministry includes. Even a Christian mother properly attending to the needs of her family is considered ministry. It includes the work Bethelites do and includes feeding or helping those in need. It is not limited to spiritual feeding.

As far as the Watchtower goes, it is often a matter of 'follow the money'. If we apply that here, then their new strategy becomes clearer. If correct, it hasn't got much to do with their failing numbers but more about driving the dollars in.

They are moving the focus from field ministry to other forms of 'acceptable service'. That would include Bethel Service, as a remote worker or living on site. Providing material help where ever they see it as being advantageous to them and this will be ramped up more. Spending more time on making video's. Devoting time to their biggest money spinner, the building work. Even more emphasis will be placed on donating as being part of person ministry.

Providing more material aid to those in need helps with Watchtower in a number of ways. Firstly, it establishes them as a 'charity' even more so, or beyond question in many countries. Being identified as a charity brings numerous financial benefits as well as creating a better public image to help in lawsuits.

'Jehovah's fast moving chariot' is quite slow and this appears to be part of their revamp that's been taking place over the past number of years. We've seen the articles and talks more and more promoting those other areas of ministry over that time but it's not so effective if JWs are still focused on the field ministry as being an important part of their Christian service, devoting at least 10 hours a month. With this step of removing the reporting of hours of field ministry and instead just asking whether the JW has been involved in any ministry over the last month, helps to shift the focus further.

Now there's a possibility that a JW may feel that donating money and being a good Christian is giving his best whereas in years gone by, it wasn't. They are becoming more and more like their enemy, the Catholic religion.

I love how they have designed the form, it's very sneaky. It says check the box if you have shared in any form of ministry during the month. If a JW feels that they haven't and puts a cross in the box, they'll still be counted as having done so. Very clever, all they need to do is be insistent that the JW fills out the form and hands it back. If they were being genuine they would have two boxes, a yes and a no box.