Posts by Listener

The Rebel, welcome to the forum and for your willingness to discuss a topic that tends to really stir some posters up. The topic has been discussed before and received a similar reaction.

When deciding to open a discussion, you can always do a search if you want to get some insight into the types of comments that can be expected.

22

royal commission so far

by zeb in

before another day goes past please, summarize the outcome in dot points of the royal commission so far.

for me in no order;.

that the wt considers sex crimes against children of little importance.

I just wrote my opinion about the scripture in Matthew and to me it seems clear that it is not talking about having witnesses to confirm guilt. This is what I wrote on another forum and would appreciate it if someone could tell me if my understanding is not correct.

<<Matthew 18:15 Â“If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that Â‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.Â’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. >>

This scripture is not applied by the JWs, somehow they extract a two witness policy from it. In the first part it authorizes a person who is aware of the other persons sin to go and point out their fault, to discuss it with them in the hope that the sinner will recognize their wrongdoing and correct their ways, that is how they will be 'won over'. But if he doesn't acknowledge his sin as a wrongdoing then the next verse says that the first person needs to bring along another one or two persons so that the sinner now has two or three persons testifying that what he is doing is wrong and needs to correct his way. If the person still does not acknowledge what he is doing as sinful then the matter needs to be brought up with the church. This could mean one of two things. That the leaders of the church, who would be considered the final authority on a matter would then need to also provide testimony to the fact that the person has sinned and needs to correct his way or the second meaning could be that the whole of the congregation should be brought into the matter. Then if he still doesn't listen he is no longer to be treated as a Brother.

How is this different to the establishment of the two witness policy that the JWs apply? Clearly in the fist instance the sin has already been established and even when two or three are brought into the situation and there is no acknowledgement of the sin then there is a third step and that is to bring in the Church, not to establish the sin but to have the sinner acknowledge that what he has done is wrong. Then if he still doesn't acknowledge his sin the matter is to be brought to the Church. If they cannot turn the sinner around from his wrongdoing BECAUSE he has not acknowledged his sin before two or three witnesses even, then the Church should no longer treat him as a brother.

The start of the scripture at Verse 15 sets the scene. "If your brother or sister sins go and point out their fault" It says nothing about establishing the sin, it is already a given. It is the reverse of what the JWs interpret it as. Instead of having witnesses to establish the sin there are witnesses to help make the sinner aware that he is at fault

6

England just won back the ashes

by barry in

jw
friends

yes england just won back the ashes at trent bridge.. by an innings and 78 runs and their celebrating like a pack of wild dogs.. if it wasn't for the royal commission all australia would be in serious depression tonight.

Listener

I guess we have to let them win sometimes, they'd lose interest if we didn't.:)

12

JW.ORG on “uncleanness” that displeases God

by opusdei1972 in

i have been recently reading in jw.org the following absurdities on their black and white world: .

do jehovahs witnesses have rules about dating?......christians who want to marry are commanded to choose only a fellow believer.

(1 corinthians 7:39) jehovahs witnesses view this command as referring not merely to a person who respects our beliefs but to one who shares and practices those beliefs as a baptized witness.

Listener

The organizations explicit definitions relating to sexual acts is just crazy, breaking it down to what physically constitutes loose conduct, gross uncleanness and fornication, with each of those graduating in seriousness. Unfortunately it has had the repercussion that Elders have not taken as seriously as they should have when child abuse has occurred.

I think touching a females breast is only considered as loose conduct regardless of whether it brings a male to the point of ejaculation or not.

12

JW.ORG on “uncleanness” that displeases God

by opusdei1972 in

i have been recently reading in jw.org the following absurdities on their black and white world: .

do jehovahs witnesses have rules about dating?......christians who want to marry are commanded to choose only a fellow believer.

(1 corinthians 7:39) jehovahs witnesses view this command as referring not merely to a person who respects our beliefs but to one who shares and practices those beliefs as a baptized witness.

Listener

Even premarital passion-arousing behavior that stops short of sexual immorality is “uncleanness” that displeases God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

Under that statement, even kissing, quoting versus from the book of Solomon, holding hands and giving your partner 'that look' would not be allowed.

23

Girls if you're internet dating and want an idea for a good profile this one got me 137 messages in less than 24hours

by KateWild in

hi there guys,yes i do like having fun.

i am am very fun loving and can have fun everyday if you like.i am retired now i have 16 kids to 16 different dads.

i live alone as the youngest one who is 16 has just had a baby and has her own place two doors from me.

Listener

This is not advice, it's stupidity. Do you realize the danger you are putting yourself in?

If there is anything at all remotely beneficial from this, it is that, if the same guy responds to your other profile and this one then you know immediately to run the other way.

20

The 1006 list is on the Royal Commission Website!!!!

by Petraglyph in

it seems they do have a database!

!you can view it here on the royal commission website:.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

Listener

All the Exhibits have been tendered by Angus Stewart, it is a procedure in which the Documents must be officially tendered as evidence into the Case.

22

Huge list of victims

by umbertoecho in

https://www.reddit.com/domain/childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/.compact.

i pressed all the wrong buttons.

here it is, posted about an hour ago..

Listener

Toole's argument was that the cases they provided didn't always identify who reported the crime to authorities and therefore there may have been some Elders that reported. Stewart stated that the fact was that no evidence was provided that any Elder reported.

It was made clear also that this was aside from those cases that were subject to mandatory reporting which appears to have been complied with.

20

The 1006 list is on the Royal Commission Website!!!!

by Petraglyph in

it seems they do have a database!

!you can view it here on the royal commission website:.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

Listener

My understanding is the list was compiled by the Commission from files provided by the Branch.