Posts by Listener

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Listener

Smiddy - I wonder how many who claim to be of the Anointed class ,could come together as a united group to challenge the existing Governing Body members to their authority to preside over the Christian Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses.

This happened in Ray Franz's day but they were stamped out before it became an issue. It also happened in Rutherford's day and he was triumphant, bringing along with that, his own unique teachings. It is reasonable to expect this to happen again and even more so in these tumultuous times within the org., loosing both members and money.

It could even be possible for those higher up in the organization to come up with a completely different understanding of anointed ones. Ray Franz believed that this should apply to all JWs and all should partake. I don't think it would be difficult to change these current biblical interpretations. For instance, those being chosen as Kings/Priests in heaven could apply only to Jesus apostles as it was to them that he spoke of this promise in the first place. Also in relation to the FDS being promised authority over all Jesus' belonging as a reward, it could apply to an earthly authority. This would mean that any of those who are not 'anointed' (under the current understanding of that word by the GB) at the top could challenge the authority.

And what has always puzzled me is , why a person who claims to be of the Anointed class has no say whatsoever in their local congregations ,no priveledges and is generally viewed as suspect.

It makes no sense if these anointed ones are considered to be working together as the body of Christ, a role far superior than any other. It would seem it has all been about the reigning in of the power structure but as hard as they may try, there are always vulnerabilities ready to be taken advantage of by those who have the capabilities and support.

Keeping in mind they are not inspired nor spirit directed . ....they can err.

And the question is whether it goes without discipline or leadership replacement with the aim to correct so many wrongs, by those that really believe it is God's earthly organization.

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Listener

How diﬀerent those faithful kings were from the leaders of other nations, men who were guided by human wisdom and short sighted strategy! Under Canaanite leadership,people did detestable things, which included incest, homosexuality, bestiality, child sacriﬁce,and gross idolatry.(Lev.18:6, 21-25).....Not all the kings who ruled God’s ancient people followed God’s instructions. Those who did not obey Jehovah refused to accept the guidance of God’s holy spirit,his angels,and his Word.In some cases, Jehovah disciplined or replaced those leaders.(1Sam.13:13,14) In his own due time,he appointed someone who would be superior to any of the men he had used thus far.

The whole article is strange but I wonder why they chose to include this information about leaders of God's people. It demonstrates that 'Jehovah's chariot' does not stand still and will take action if his earthly leaders were not doing a good job and were either disciplined or replaced.

This leaves open the idea that if the current GB/FDS has not been demonstrating wisdom and using short sighted strategies (e.g. child abuse policies leading to shame and costly payouts, the generation teaching, unwillingness to radically revamp current teachings, allowing apostasy to surface as a serious problem, the high rate amongst JWs on dependency of prescription medication, etc.). Notice that the above Watchtower quote states that under Caananite leadership detestable things occurred, it does not say that these leaders advocated such bad behaviour but just that it occurred under their watch. And the immediate sentence prior to this comment includes the words wisdom and short sighted strategy. IMHO using the term 'short sighted strategy' is unusual and on checking the CD Library, it has never been used before.

Consider what the GB's short sighted strategy has resulted in today. The child abuse situation is obvious. Changing the publications being offered to a donation arrangement has resulted in a financial loss. Their current financial situation has resulted in serious cutbacks, even to the extent of reducing special pioneers and missionaries.

Are they introducing the idea that If God replaced or disciplined leaders in the past, there is every reason to think that he would do the same today?

Although there is just a suggestion of discipline/replacement in this issue, I don't recall when they have done this in the past.

It has been mentioned before that there is probably a group of awake JWs in the organization that are able to print such obvious negative comments that could be applied directly to the org. and it goes without notice by the GB and other reviewers before it goes into print. It has also been mentioned here, although not for some time, that there are a core group at the top that want to grab authority from others at the top (possibly the legal department)

Whatever the case, we have seen a huge amount of change already take place, and further changes taking place. It is certainly interesting times.

But if they are going to get rid of a number of core doctrines, including 1914 then a way to do it would be with a new leadership and for those at the top that want to see these changes there is no option but to do this because the current GB are holding tight these undefendable ideas.

Their problems have become so immense that they cannot continue to ignore them.

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Listener

The Governing Body makes important decisions collectively. How so? The members meet weekly, which fosters close communication and unity. ....And each member of that body views himself, not as the leader of his fellow brothers, but as one of the “domestics,” fed by the faithful slave and subject to its oversight.

I'm glad they were able to explain that but it leaves them with a problem. They state that the individual GB members are domestics but when they make decisions as a group they are the FDS. Under this arrangement then it means that any of the other individual anointed, who are also domestics, can group together with other anointed and come to their own decisions collectively and be acting as the FDS. If the current GB group sees themselves as being bibliclly established then how could they argue that another group that establish themselves by the same method is not scriptural and as domestics would then be required to submit themselves to this other group?

What would be even a bigger dilema is if this second group were able to argue that their decisions were more biblically correct. This might include the end times commencing at a future date, birthdays/mothers day etc. are okay, Jesus as mediator for all JWs, all are part of the New Covenant, all should partake, blood transfusions are a conscience matter etc.

The WTBTS are by its own constitution, required to follow that group that adhere to the bible. The second group could rightly claim authority.

What it means is that under the JW system, it is not just the GB that is responsible for ensuring that they establish doctrines and procedures in accordance with the Bible but also the rest of the anointed (who were demoted to domestics in 2013 and as individuals are still equal to the individual GB members) still have a responsibility to correct the current GB even though it requires them to do this as a group.

The point is, that by calling themselves 'domestics' leaves themselves open to being usurped and the WTBTS has to decide which group is more biblical.

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Listener

They demand that their followers accept their doctrines as truth, knowing that they are not always right. By doing so they are demanding that men follow their ideas contrary to the Bible's admonition.

9

WTBTS "Anointed" Resurrection Fallacy

by The Searcher in

based on the following statements of the wtbts, the first resurrection began in 1918, is ongoing, and ceases when the living anointed are taken to heaven - just before armageddon..

(w88 10/15 p. 12 par.

13) "....according to all the evidence, those of the anointed who had already died faithful began to be resurrected to their promised place in the heavenly sanctuary starting in 1918.".

Listener

w07 1/1 When does the first resurrection occur? There is strong evidence that it is now under way.

They may decide that the first resurrection hasn't begun.

w7612/15 To those who are doers of God’s will on earth to the end, his promise will be fulfilled. The “dragon’s” all-out efforts to keep the remnant from gaining entrance into the heavenly kingdom are doomed to failure. Revelation 20:4-6 assures us that these doers of God’s will who are yet needed to complete the full membership of 144,000 Kingdom joint heirs will endure in faithfulness to the death, that they may know the happiness of having a part in “the first resurrection.” God’s Messianic kingdom will not be lacking even one of its foreordained number of Christ’s joint heirs.

This seems to indicate that they believe these scriptures are referring to the remnant, not all of the 144,000. As to why, they do not say.

29

So I just watched Jackson's ARC interview...

by schnell in

thank you, everybody here, for introducing me to this.

no, no i had not heard of this.

child abuse issues have been roundly dismissed as apostate attacks in the congregations i've attended in the last decade.

Listener

Great observations Schnell.

Even the background to his appearance is appalling. The Branch coordinator tried to play down his role and the had their lawyer blindsight the Commission. Fortunately, there were a number of ex JWs able to communicate with the Commission whilst it was in progress and inform them of the true situation. The Commission initially took the word of the JWs and were not going to call Jackson up but when they understood his role, they decided his testimony could be beneficial.

This is partly the reason why Jackson downplayed his role as a GB member.

Then there is the Case where G. Losch was subpoened to appear in a Child Abuse Case. He refused to appear and lodged a Declaration which included this statement

I do not answer to Watchtower. .... Watchtower does not have, and never has had, any authority over me." - Gerrit Lösch in a signed Declaration submitted to the Superior Court of the State of California, County of San Diego, dated February 4th, 2014

The whole Declaration can be found here -
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5202072156766208/gerrit-losch-hypocritical-let-your-light-shine-talk-given-after-his-refusal-let-his-light-shine-before-caesar-court-room

35

Another Outright Lie Published 2/17 WT

by LostGeneration in

this info is from the article "who is leading god's people today" feb 17 study edition.. to help them disseminate bible truth in various languages, zion’s watch tower tract society was legally incorporated in 1884, with brother russell as president.

* he was an outstanding student of the bible, and he fearlessly exposed as false such doctrines as the trinity and the immortality of the soul.

he discerned that christ would return invisibly and that “the appointed times of the nations” would end in 1914.. pretty sickening article overall about how badass the gb is, though this little gem is printed as well, paragraph 12. the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible.

Listener

They love to use the excuse that they are neither inspired or infallible for their false teachings and according to them, we can't even blame them for when they do promote false teachings

reflect on the list of beliefs clarified that was referred to in the preceding paragraph. Surely, no human deserves credit for discovering and explaining these “deep things of God”!

They also make this claim

” If those of the Governing Body allow God’s Word rather than popular opinion to guide their decisions, who is really leading God’s people today?

This wasn't the case with Jackson's testimony at the RC, particularly about being God's Channel and corporal punishment of children.

Also, haven't they repeatedly used the excuse regarding their handling of child abuse been because the general opinion about such abuse was not recognized as being such a serious problem in past decades. Had they stuck to advise given in the Bible they would not be in the position they are today.

5

Great new video! A MUST watch for all...

by stuckinarut2 in

jwfacts has uploaded a new video on his youtube channel that is a must watch for all!.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pltnibcweqq.

thanks paul.

Listener

Thanks, I didn't know he had a Youtube Chanel, I've just subscribed. He's a good speaker as well as a good writer.

42

November 1, 2016 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: Using and Maintaining Kingdom Halls

by wifibandit in

november 1, 2016 to all bodies of elders re: using and maintaining kingdom halls.

table of contents.

ownership .........................................................................................pars.

Listener

Konceptual99 It looks that way, they will have to tell her not to give the password to you in order for them to obey the org's policy which states or they will tell you not to ask for it from anyone.

If it is determined that a publisher should no longer have access to the Internet at the Kingdom Hall, the elders should change the password. The publisher should not be allowed access until the elders are convinced that the individual has rectified his conduct.

The problem is that by enforcing this law they are potentially placing females at odds with their husbands, their head. An obedient male JW not in good standing would not ask for it. However, the password is only to be given to publishers in good standing so there will be some non JW marriage partners that will find this just another ridiculous rule.

They've just introduced a new form of discipline. This discipline means that they will be ostracizing not only disfellowshipped ones but also those who have been mildly disciplined.

The password has to be given out individually rather than making a general announcement. They are going to look even more stupid to members of the public who attend a meeting. Imagine a Brother going around to everyone and virtually whispering a password to them or writing it on a piece of paper and handing it to them. It is a cult after all.

22

Summer Regional Convention

by miss.ives01 in

has anyone attended the sunday program of the summer regional convention, remain loyal to jehovah?.

i have been very concerned about the tone of discussion surrounding sundays program.

i went to friday and sat., not sunday.

Listener

Putting fear into their followers is something the organisation has mastered. They need to continually find new ways of making the end appear imminent and this is their latest tactic.

The view that they will not 'let in' those who are spiritually week/not deserving is new to me. There was a discussion in the basement bunker about a Bro. called Kevin who was weak but it sounded like he would have been permitted in had he knocked. Also, this means that Elders would become judges whereas they have always taught that this judgement would come from heaven.

As to plans for the future, they've recently announced the building of the Bethel in England which they expect to be completed by 2020 or thereabouts.