Once Upon a Time in America.
Nickolas
JoinedPosts by Nickolas
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35
How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"
by Nickolas ini'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.
i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.
i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.
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Nickolas
So I think you should not wait for a chance to get this person to read Crisis of Conscience. I wonder what the posters will think about your asking a key question instead. "Can you please tell me how do Jehovah's witnesses know that theirs is Jehovah's organization? I mean, for example, the Catholic Church says the pope is the heir of Peter's authority. How do Jehovah's witnesses know they were chosen by Jehovah as his organization?" In my humble opinion, this is a better way to make people think and perhaps be more receptive to reading more material.
I have considered this approach dgb, particularly after reading "Captives of a Concept". Cameron blows the contention that the Watchtower is God's organisation clean out of the water. Hands down solid legal and logical argument. But I have already presented an equally (in my mind) devastating argument about blood doctrine, and cognitive dissonance took over. The blinds went up and the conversation was over. It may be time to get out some heavy artillery. (And I always pay attention to what Black Sheep says.)
And gettingafirmholdonthereallife, I think you're getting closer to what my solution might be. Three books. I might even offer to reciprocate by reading three books of hers, although that would be just a tad cynical.
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55
I talked the first time in 20 years to a non-JW and need a divorce...
by Intel inthis is very difficult to write (forgive me for any spelling mistake, i am not a native english speaker).. i cannot tell my complete story on this board - i eventually will, once i have broken the last "link in the chain" that has kept me captive to the borg.
i can't tell my story, because.....basically i will be known.....as a more or less "famous" jw..... i have been lurking this site for many years, wrote here under another name - this eventually was found out and i had to do "damage containment".
i had to "go back" and tow the party line....all my family (extended and close) are witnesses, all my "friends" and even work & business relationships are jw.
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Nickolas
I see you are a fan of Orwell, baltar.
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35
How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"
by Nickolas ini'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.
i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.
i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.
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Nickolas
Would she freak out on you if she just happened to come across it laying on your desk?
I agree with lostgeneration, do the reverse witnessing technique of leaving "your literiture" around the house where she will see it,
I am reading it openly. She's the one who picked it up at the post office. She is, in other words, expecting me to ask her to read it once I am done. She's been a little quiet lately, so I know it is bothering her, doubtless formulating her response. We've been together almost 40 years and read each other like a book, but sometimes the text is blurred.
I think this is where you would need to evaluate if the specific accusations in the book are severe enough to warrant leaving, and if there is proof to back up the accusations.
Just the chapter on Malawi is sufficient, in my estimation. The GB allowed the rape and murder of (black) women and children on the principle of a one-party system political card while at the same time condoning the illegal acquisition of fraudulent military cards for (white) Mexican males. There is much in the book that warrants leaving but, frankly, I wouldn't care a whit if she decided to stay and put in appearances, so long as privately she stopped being a brainwashed cult member who would sacrifice herself and others to the glory of the Society.
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35
How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"
by Nickolas ini'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.
i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.
i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.
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Nickolas
Yes, moshe. It may be her who makes the decision that she can't take my opposition any longer. It will depend on which personality she's into at the time. Most of the time she's a wonderful, loving wife. Sometimes she sets her jaw and stiffens her spine, and then I know she's into her Watchtower mode.
My study conductor's wife illustrated it like a marriage. She said if you are a loyal wife, you are going to remain tied to your husband even if he has made and still makes mistakes. You are also not going to read disparaging material about him, even if it is true. She said the relationship between a baptized JW and the org is kind of like that.
I am sure your study conductor's wife is right. But if you are a loyal wife and your husband is a child molester and philanderer then you are a fool for not wanting to know about it.
In one of your discussions ask her. "Do this for me. Read COC. And after reading it, you don't agree with me, I will never bring this stuff up again. I will put it too rest forever."
That would probably work, dissed, since my wife knows I have never broken my word to her. Heck of a gamble, though. Cognitive dissonance and all that. However, if she read the book without effect I just might consider myself defeated and I wouldn't bring the stuff up again because I might not be around. I could keep my end of the bargain, but trigger the consequences I am seeking to avoid.
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35
How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"
by Nickolas ini'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.
i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.
i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.
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Nickolas
It seems to me, InterestedOne, that your friend is missing the point. This book was not written by some anonymous ex-Witness who has spiritual insights into things the Society does not have. He was the Society and his insights are not so much spiritual as they are historical. It was written by one of the very men who crafted what she holds to be Truth. If she dismisses what he has to say on this basis, she should dismiss what he had to say for the nine years he was a member of the Governing Body. She has sorted out what is important to her, but it is apparently not an examination of truth so much as a blind acceptance of what she is told to believe.
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35
How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"
by Nickolas ini'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.
i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.
i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.
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Nickolas
The towel analogy depends entirely on the context, sab. I took you to mean giving in and accepting things as they are, which is what my wife really wants but what I cannot bring myself to do. Otherwise, yes, I suppose walking away is giving up. I have even pondered Witness My Fury's advice - threaten divorce - but it won't come to that. I subscribe to the philosophy of Sun Tzu who said "a threat is not a threat unless it is real". I will not threaten. I will just do. Nothing more real than that.
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55
I talked the first time in 20 years to a non-JW and need a divorce...
by Intel inthis is very difficult to write (forgive me for any spelling mistake, i am not a native english speaker).. i cannot tell my complete story on this board - i eventually will, once i have broken the last "link in the chain" that has kept me captive to the borg.
i can't tell my story, because.....basically i will be known.....as a more or less "famous" jw..... i have been lurking this site for many years, wrote here under another name - this eventually was found out and i had to do "damage containment".
i had to "go back" and tow the party line....all my family (extended and close) are witnesses, all my "friends" and even work & business relationships are jw.
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Nickolas
First of all, your command of written English is extraordinary. Better than most for whom English is their mother tongue.
Your life's involvement with the Society is great and in that respect we have little in common, but emotionally I have been close to where you are many times and have always, without fail, yielded to my heart and stayed on with my witness wife. If anything, I am not the one to give advice but I can provide a little insight. My experience has been that patience does not yield results - not all things come to him who waits. Waiting for your wife to finally see the light about the Society is much the same as all those old people who never went to college, never got married, never even had sex, and who died waiting on Jehovah. It sounds like you've come to a painful resolution. It's one I have struggled to avoid for many years. All I can do is wish you well.
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How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"
by Nickolas ini'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.
i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.
i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.
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Nickolas
Haha! Yeah right. From what I can tell , you wouldn't spend 33 years in any endeavor to have it end with white towel from your end of the ring.
Not thinking of throwing in the towel, sab, not on just letting it keep going on. My mind tries on the thought of ending my marriage almost on a daily basis. I love this woman more than life itself, but I'm just about done being #2 in her life.
Satanus is right. There are affairs of the heart and affairs of the head. Her faith in the Watchtower is not logical, and I think she realises that. Ding, that's brilliant.
added: I have the book in pdf, sab. If I got her to agree to read a small part of it she might do so but refuse to read any other parts on the basis that the first part did not strike her as truth, for whatever reason. No, this needs to be overwhelming. Her sensibilities need to be bludgened, shaken to their core, so that she finally opens up her eyes and sees clearly. If I could convince her to read it, I would seek a commitment from her that she would finish it all.
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What Did You Not Do Because You Were A Jehovah's Witness That You Wanted To Do?
by minimus ini didn't go to college and of course, "higher education" was never recommended.
still, i never felt terribly deprived because of not going further in my education.. yet, i did wish that i could've had "normal" aka "worldly friends".
i wish that as witnesses, we could've been better integrated with other people.
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Nickolas
Your question could also have been what did you not do because you were married to a Jehovah's Witness. I studied with them, but pulled the plug when it became clear it was all bullshit, but my wife of, at the time, five years got sucked in, despite my protests. Now we're approaching old age and I cannot help but look back upon the past 33 years with resentment. The Watchtower has been the univited third party in my marriage and marriage bed. There are victims of the Watchtower who brought it on themselves, victims whose parents brought it to them, and victims who are just collateral damage.