Are you familiar with Spherical Standing Wave Theory (SSW)?
No, I am not, sizemik, but I will be looking into it as part of my ongoing education. Thank you.
I get a "page not found" error when I try your url, TQO.
Nickolas
JoinedPosts by Nickolas
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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Nickolas
about 220.
good night :o).
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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Nickolas
What I admire most about people in here is their honesty. I admire that you easily acknowledge holding yourself back against your baser tendencies, Tammy. I am going to take a tangent just for the benefit of illustration. To answer your question yes, I would fragrantly break the speed limit if I safely could, but these days I do not, but only because my reflexes are not what they once were. In my younger days I broke speed laws fragrantly a few times, each time with a virtually certain safe outcome, and with the admitted benefit of retrospect I can report that nothing went wrong. I understand how that might be perceived as wreckless or irresponsible, given the number of tragic street racing incidents of late. But I only ever pushed the envelope on open highways and almost always alone but sometimes with someone in the other seat - one of the more remarkable times was when a policeman friend showed me the best roads on which to drive at 135 mph undetected while he was at the wheel giving a practical demonstration. He or I might have encountered an unlikely moose or deer on the road but not another human being. In any event we encountered no adverse adventure. Should I feel guilty I did this in my life and will never get to do it again? Just for the record, I don't. Not all laws are just in all circumstances and not all dictated morals are just in all circumstances. When they make sense and you follow them accordingly, then it is not adherence but recognition.
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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Nickolas
Thanks, I'll look into it when I have a moment.
What is most of what we teach if not something we have learned from someone else?
Adherence to me is doing something that I might not be disposed to doing otherwise. Like adhering to the speed limit while driving my E-type. If I had my druthers and the conditions were safe, I'd open her up, but instead I adhere to the speed limit. Turning the other cheek is not something one should do because it is mandated somewhere, is it?
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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Nickolas
The possibility of life happening by chance has been estimated to be 1 in 10 to the 40,000 power or 10 with 40,000 zeroes behind it. That's just the chance for it to occur once. ONCE.
Awen, I contest your abiogenesis probability number, and the reference you cite doesn't speak to it. It looks like the probability of a very simple life form, like a bacterium, coming into existence by chance, in which case I agree. Exceedingly improbable, virtually impossible. But we're not talking about simple life forms but auto or mutually replicating molecules. See http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html#Intro. And, as far as I understand it, it need only have happened once, regardless of the probability.
the fallacy of bifurcation,
Another example of the fallacy is "the probability of the evolution of even the simplest life forms by chance is so small as to be impossible, therefore God did it". I realise that you are not saying this, because like Paul you subscribe to evolutionary theory, but it is a common mantra of creationists. The first part is true, the conclusion spurious. Evolution through natural selection is a much more logical conclusion which happens to be supported by mountains of evidence, remarkably unlike the assertion that God did it. (See sir82's contribution). But, to the point raised by PP on page 2, I have difficulty understanding why God would have set evolution in motion - to quote someone for whom I have considerable respect (Christopher Hitchens) "What kind of designer or creator is so wasteful and capricious and approximate? What kind of designer or creator is so cruel and indifferent?"
I realize that in order to believe I don't need all the answers right now.
In order for me to believe I would need some answers or, more accurately, some evidence. I do not understand, sincerely, why it is said one needs to believe before he can be saved. Why does God consider belief in something for which there is no apparent evidence an absolute virtue? I see much more virtue in doubt than belief. Also:
If God were to make creationism unquestionable, without a doubt in our mind then where would that leave Faith? Faith is the cornerstone of religion.
Again, what is so special about Faith? Is the exceptional faith of, say, the men who immolate themselves in crowded bazaars admirable? Certainly to many it is, but to many more it is not.
If you read the bible from Ot to NT you will see a "change" in the concept of God ( not in God persay, but in how ancient man understood God).
Then you must wonder why the OT hasn't been trashed, don't you Paul? (This also sounds suspiciously like "New Light".) I might have the same observation about sab's comments later on (The time the OT was written humans were much different and God was much less clear to them as he is to us now.)
The James Webb Space Telescope (sometimes called JWST) is a large, infrared-optimized space telescope. The project is working to a 2018 launch date.
Wow. How exciting is that? But, Giordano:
Nicholas asking our believeing friends if their belief in a god/creator etc. is relevant or large enough after the wonders we have seen through the Hubble will certainly roil their waters. And referencing the early Christian symbol like fish they rise to the bait.
It is not my intent to bait anyone but to understand something I at present do not.
In his book, SUPERSTITION, Robert Park describes that as "Texas sharpshooter fallacy." Fire a bullet into the side of a barn, then paint a bullseye around the bullet hole. As long as we have such willingness to ignore all the data and focus on the tiniest of remote suggestive "evidence," we will never really get through to all people.
A more colourful way of describing the phenomenon of tailoring the facts to the conclusion, which is how I tend to view a theist's perspective of the universe as exposed by Hubble. This is a problem I perceive. Faith prevents one from seeking alternative conclusions, and that is why the faithful cannot see what I see.
I'm being sincere here . . . it simply appears that you have no need for faith, as the evidence for your belief is conclusive and undeniable. I'm interested as to where and how one might obtain this evidence.
An excellent question, sizemik. I look forward to Shelby's response (I am composing as I go along, here).
That is to say monkeys don't evolve into birds or horses etc. Nor to my knowledge has any evidence ever come forth to prove otherwise
That would be devolution, Awen, and you're right, it doesn't seem to happen, but then again why would it? I'm not sure if I am detecting a common misconception in your statement or not, but monkeys don't evolve into human-like creatures either. All modern species are evolving, but not into other modern species. Humankind did not evolve from monkeys or apes but from an ancient creature in common.
I don't have faith in the existence of God, dear one. I KNOW God's exists.
Ok, there it is. It is a different distinction, Shelby. I, for one, do not know He exists, therefore the rest - faith in His promise - has no prerequisite foundation. I circle back to the need for faith in Him and, finding none, faith in His promise falls away. Which is what you seem to be saying here:
It was my faith that ALLOWED me to receive the evidence, dear one: first, to hear him.
But, to repeat myself, why does God put so much emphasis on belief. I'm with Thomas (the original Missourian) - you want me to believe? Show me.
I am somewhat perplexed as to why you see YHWH as being diminished. I can only speculate that you're speaking of the YHWH that is only revealed in the 66 books of the Bible, not the other 550 or so books that have been written, hidden, destroyed, covered up, etc. There is so much that was written and is now lost, forgotten or even not accepted because they're not part of the "official" canon.
Yes, Awen, I am speaking from the perspective of the OT depiction of Yahweh, which is not flattering. The Apocrypha I am not at all familiar with and, I confess, holds out no interest to me. Yahweh, as depicted in the OT, is a small, jealous, vindictive and capricious god unworthy of even the tiniest fraction of the magnificient universe He is alleged to have created.
On a side note I think the Deluge is a myth or at best a localized flood.
I'm glad you said that. I was going to say the something of the same myself, but it is indeed a side note to this thread.
The point about not evolving outside of our "kinds" or Genus shows an undestanding of the genetic evolutionary process that was thousands of years beyond primitive man.
I believe the ancient understanding to which you refer is in reference to sexual reproduction among species and not a tacit recognition that living things evolve. A cat cannot mate with a dog. And things do not evolve from one genus into another co-existing genus. The evolving genus inexorably and very, very gradually fades away and completely new genera come into being. (I've just come back to this part of my piecemeal composition to add that sizemik's explanation is well worth re-reading, for those who might be having a little difficulty grasping the concept.)
Thanks unshackled . . . I enjoyed the video
as did I.
If dear Nick (as always, peace to you!) believe it's okay, I'll do so here
feel free, my dear.
One last comment, vis courtesy in conversation. It is not always necessary but lack of it will have a tendency to derail conversation amongst those who are insecure about themselves. I don't perceive myself as insecure but if you call me an asshole I might react with some degree of heat, so maybe I am at least a little insecure after all. Or, maybe, I lean more toward vengeance for a perceived injury. I like Tammy's take on this and will draw a lesson from it. Turning the other cheek is the better response. The cost will then be borne by you and not me, because what ultimately is "done" to us in a forum like this one is "done" to ourselves by ourselves. Only we can give power to other people to cause us injury and only we can withhold it. It does not matter so much to me what you believe that I should upset myself over it, or that you seem incapable of understanding what I perceive as obvious. That is because I have been wrong so many times in my life that I have long ceased to believe in my own infallibility, even when revisiting old intellectual pastures I have abandoned and left fallow. I am just passing through. So are you. Find a place in which you can live out your short life in peace and happiness while allowing others to do the same and nothing, absolutely nothing, else matters.
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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Nickolas
Oh but the level of thought expressed in here is impressive, respectful and mature - and I would very much enjoy chiming in. Forgive me but I have overnight guests, old friends whose attention is more pressing than yours, but only because I can slough you all off more easily. The conversation in here is much more interesting. So much food for thought. Thank you all. I will catch up tomorrow.
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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Nickolas
Sizemik and BoC join Twitch and me on the same page.
I was expecting you, too, Paul. Thanks for chiming in. But I'm not sure you're seeing the context in the way I am. Space and time. Unfathomable space and time. Why here, why now? What compels one not to doubt the Bible and the existence of God and His Son when juxtaposed against dimensions so impossibly large - unless it all comes down to faith and wanting to believe it is all true? And if it all comes down to faith, how is this particular faith different from any other, as in faith in Allah or faith in Brahma?
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
-
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Nickolas
I am reading the same thing throughout the few (and appreciated) replies, and that is it comes down to faith. In the absense of the personal revelation cited by Shelby (denied me and almost all others and about which we have already talked on a number of occasions) what directs one to put one's faith specifically in Yahweh? I take botch's answer to be one of a deist - if I read it right, he is discounting the God of the Bible and his Son but saying that God came from the universe and is the universe itself.
Perhaps the main questions, related to the incomprehensible vastness of the universe, are why here and (relatively speaking) why now? Of all the trillions upon trillions of planets in the universe and the billions upon billions of years it has been expanding, why did God choose to have his showdown with Satan on the planet Earth in our time? It can be viewed as a very specific and unique form of the anthropic principle, I suppose, but it is more easily viewed as purely situational and provincial rationalisation. That is, the story of Yahweh, Satan, Jesus, etc. was invented as a means to explain what emerging civilisation could not explain otherwise. We now have the ability to explain the phenomenon of our existence in terms of what we can measure and observe and it is, perhaps, that we are still emerging as civilised, thinking beings that we still see God in the things that are incomprehensible to us.
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
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Nickolas
Thank you all for your responses (in particular Shelby's and Tammy's. I was hoping in advance you'd both chime in. Twitch and I are on the same page). I've read them over once and will digest their messages for awhile whilst hopefully reading a few more later on.
Good night, all.
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269
The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.
by Nickolas inthere have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.
i guess this will be another one.
there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.
-
-
Nickolas
There have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the Hubble space telescope have been discussed. I guess this will be another one. There's a new series being broadcast here in Canada on the Oasis HD nature channel entitled Hubble's Canvas. Each installment I've watched leaves me slackjawed. The latest episode, aired on Sunday, featured mosaics of individual photographs taken by the Hubble. They were all breathlessly beautiful but one of them in particular hit home. The narrator presented the context: extend your arm out and superimpose your index finger across this particular small part of the sky that appears to be devoid of any light and this represents the area viewed by the Hubble. What fraction of the sky this represents was not specified, but it goes without saying that the number is exceedingly small. In the mosaic are depicted more than 50,000 (fifty thousand) galaxies, each with billions of stars and perhaps trillions of planets, whose light is only now reaching the environs of the Earth after billions of years. Multiply that by further billions and trillions and the greatest potential of humankind's comprehension is overwhelmed.
Project against this context the image of Yahweh as depicted in the OT. Against the incomprehensible magnificence of what He is alleged to have created, He appears very, very, very, very tiny and insignificant. Against the reality of tens of billions of years and billions of trillions of planets, the context of the past 4-5,000 years and the central story presented in the Bible is almost immeasurably diminished. Add to that the context provided by other branches of science, genetics not the least of them, and any semblance of credibility in Yahweh and the Bible vaporises. All that is left is faith.
This is a sincere question posed to sincere people. How does one go on believing in Yahweh and the Bible when the evidence against the legitimacy of either is so astonishingly overwhelming and relentless? Is it just cognitive dissonance, or is there something more to it? How is it possible for you to go on believing what you believe?