Posts by Nickolas

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

Why the need for geneology? To the Hebrews, it was a way to trace their "uniqueness" as compared to the "outsiders", if one views Adam as the frist prototypical "hebrew".

You take away the Messiah in the "hebrew" sense, which got downplayed as time when on anyways.

I think you may detect the contradiction between those two statements, PSacramento. If the genealogies were retained in the Christian writings because they lent credibility to the messianic claim of Jesus of Nazareth from the Hebrew perspective then it does not follow that the Hebrew perspective would be later downplayed. It sounds too much like sucking people into listenting to The Truth by starting with a lie.

Here's the upshot. Ready? Fundamentalist Christian groups, and I will include the Watchtower as much as they would object, look down upon what they call cafeteria Christians precisely for this reason. Christianity is based 100% (one hundred percent) on the Bible, there is no other source. But people who consider themselves non-fundamentalist Christians will accept less than 100% of the Bible as fact. Rejection of the Adam and Eve story verbatim when it has been presented as fact together with the genealogy of Jesus of Nazareth, also presented as fact, is rationalisation of one's faith, picking and choosing between what is credible to him and what is not.

I agree, the Genesis story is not credible. It crumbles under the weight of massive contradictory evidence. But I also agree that the very basic tenets of Christianity fall apart without it, and it is for this reason I am not a Christian.

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

I think you get the point, Vander. The New Testament is solidly founded on the proposition that Jesus of Nazareth is the messiah by virtue of his direct line of descent from Adam and Eve. Take away Adam and Eve and you take away the messiah. Take away the messiah and you take away Christianity.

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

The very simple question remains unanswered.

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

Ah, I was waiting for you to pick up, PSacramento, but, with respect, you didn't answer the question.

You are saying the Eden story is symbolism, which is consistent with Christians subscribing to evolutionary theory, as you do. But the fly in the ointment are those genealogical accounts in the Christian gospels, upon which so much of Christian belief and ideology are based. Specifically, the accounts of Matthew 1:1-17, which traces the genealogy of Joseph and of Luke 3:23-38, which traces the genealogy of Mary, both going right back to Adam. These accounts are very specific, naming each succeeding generation in turn. If the Adam and Eve story is symbolism, as you say, why the need for the genealogies? If Adam was the first sapient homo, why no mention of the animal homos that preceeded him?

15

Argument from complexity

by goddidit in

we know the universe has within it the capabilty for things to become more complex with direct divine intervention.

look at snowflakes.. as far as i can see, that fact alone invalidates the argument from complexity (isn't the eye complex?

evolution must be false).. can anyone suggest a good way to phrase this that might get into a dubs head?.

Nickolas

Are we talking about "irreducible" complexity, ie ID?

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

Yes, but did the Jews understand it to be that way you just explained?

Yes, it is the basis of waiting for the messia. I'm not following the relevance within the present context, however.

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

Gen 3:15, as I understand it, sets the stage for everything else in the Bible. Cain is the seed of evil and Abel of good. Cain slew Abel, who was replaced by Seth, from whom the seed of good (the genealogy of Christ) sprang forth.

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise Him on the heel." (Genesis 3:15).

That one?

46

Today's Watchtower study shows how desperate they are

by Mickey mouse in

it seems as though at least one article in every issue of the study watchtower is devoted to reinforcing the governing body's authority.

this from pargraph 10:.

10 christ provides loving oversight of his congregations on earth by means of appointed elders.

Nickolas

What truly sets Jehovah's Witnesses apart from other religions is that they do not follow any human leader but instead follow the Christ. However, to follow the Christ and attain salvation you must follow and obey the leadership of 8 humans known as the Governing Body.

I was under the impression there were 12 on the GB.

202

"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas in

i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

are you in the truth?

Nickolas

Well, since we seem to have hit an hiatus in the conversation, allow me to expand the context of The Truth just a little.

It has already been said that without Genesis the Watchtower version of The Truth falls apart. That is, if the Adam and Eve story isn't true, PSacramento, then how could the story of God sending his Son down to redeem us for that Original Sin be true? The New Testament gospels of Matthew and Luke present the geneology of Jesus of Nazareth tracing back to Adam. Is this allegory? If so, what is the purpose?

Again, we are discussing The Truth as represented by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. If we're all agreeing that it's bunk, then let's examine why it is bunk.