Don't think so, wannabefree. It would have been a pretty cynical statement since at the time the Society was discouraging kids from going to college and of course none of them were in the National Guard.
Nickolas
JoinedPosts by Nickolas
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21
Kent Sate masscre
by d insince this the 40 yr anniversity of the shooting.how did feel about the shootings as a jw do you see as the sign of the end times?were you scared about inpending perscution or revolution in this country.
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Kent Sate masscre
by d insince this the 40 yr anniversity of the shooting.how did feel about the shootings as a jw do you see as the sign of the end times?were you scared about inpending perscution or revolution in this country.
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Nickolas
Of course, the Jallianwala Bagh massacre was not quite as bad as the 1968 My Lai massacre. I expect you remember that one, too, TD.
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Kent Sate masscre
by d insince this the 40 yr anniversity of the shooting.how did feel about the shootings as a jw do you see as the sign of the end times?were you scared about inpending perscution or revolution in this country.
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Nickolas
I was 18 at the time in early May and remember it well and of course it all comes back when I hear that CSNY song. Four dead kids around my age. In the end it was the consequence of fearful, inexperienced, dishonest and immature people who found themselves in charge of a situation they couldn't handle, and they fumbled the ball. It went all the way to the top. Richard Nixon ultimately caused the Kent State massacre because the Ohio National Guard was called in because of Nixon's intolerance toward Vietnam war protests. It was pretty bad, but it would have been worse if the cause had not been gross incompetence. If knowledge of this massacre is new to you, you might want to google the Jallianwala Bagh massacre by British troops in 1919. In that case, the person in charge wanted to kill people. His men kept shooting until they ran out of ammunition.
The world is a strange and dangerous place, indeed.
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High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement
by headisspinning inbut our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.
i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.
she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.
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Nickolas
Advice from a hardass atheist (don't be afraid, I won't bite you and I won't tell you your faith in God is wrong. That's completely up to you and your husband to decide.) I am also assuming you will be back. Pain is pain, and there is some relief here. Otherwise, this is just another sad case of the WTBTS ripping apart families.
Assuming a light comes on for you and you perceive clearly for the first time that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is not what it represents itself to be, you may wish to carefully consider your secular needs. I realise that this goes against the grain of Watchtower indoctrination (and from what I am reading in your posts both you and your husband are textbook examples), but this is all about your life and the lives of your husband and son. You need to think about your family first. Nothing in this world, or outside of it, is more important than your family. Nothing.
You are getting some sound advice from intelligent people who know exactly what's happening to you and why. They stand to gain nothing by reaching out to you beyond the satisfaction of having helped a fellow human being. I guess that can be equated to a sort of spiritual satisfaction. Ultimately, all the good we can do in this life, all the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, render down to one thing and that is carrying one another.
Rise up and free yourselves. You don't have to abandon God and Jesus in the process. Shake off these horrible shackles that have caused you nothing but anguish, fear and pain and start to live your life as the good and gentle people you are. It sounds like your husband needs some talk therapy to come to grips with the abuses in his past. They're done. Nothing he or you can do to reverse them, but they just don't matter. He was a victim, past tense, and it is up to him alone to stop being victimised by his own mind. Much harder to do than say, but once he realises that it really is up to him, he will be free from that, too.
When you get yourself sorted out emotionally and psychologically, see a lawyer. Your husband gave up his material goods under considerable duress and still got nothing in return. Most lawyers will listen to you for half an hour without charge and then take on your case on contingency. Get back some of what legally and morally belongs to your husband, move away and start a new life.
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Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments
by Nickolas inthere's a wide cross section of thinkers on this board, representing christian belief and non-belief and points in between, the agnostics.
there is most definitely a minority, mostly silent, of devoted jehovah's witnesses present, too, but their contribution to the dialogue and dynamic of the board is minimal.
that small minority aside, it can be said the people who venture into here to communicate with one another share a common paradigm, and that is the watchtower is built on a foundation of clay.
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Nickolas
Thanks to all for the great advice, links and encouragement. Please accept my best wishes in return.
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88
Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments
by Nickolas inthere's a wide cross section of thinkers on this board, representing christian belief and non-belief and points in between, the agnostics.
there is most definitely a minority, mostly silent, of devoted jehovah's witnesses present, too, but their contribution to the dialogue and dynamic of the board is minimal.
that small minority aside, it can be said the people who venture into here to communicate with one another share a common paradigm, and that is the watchtower is built on a foundation of clay.
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Nickolas
I think the direct assault strategy is off the board. Thanks, designs, but I imagine you probably see it too. It might end up more like a kamikaze attack, and I'm not into self sacrifice, at least not to that degree. Guerilla warfare against the larger target, love, patience and understanding otherwise.
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88
Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments
by Nickolas inthere's a wide cross section of thinkers on this board, representing christian belief and non-belief and points in between, the agnostics.
there is most definitely a minority, mostly silent, of devoted jehovah's witnesses present, too, but their contribution to the dialogue and dynamic of the board is minimal.
that small minority aside, it can be said the people who venture into here to communicate with one another share a common paradigm, and that is the watchtower is built on a foundation of clay.
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Nickolas
designs, is there a precedent?
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88
Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments
by Nickolas inthere's a wide cross section of thinkers on this board, representing christian belief and non-belief and points in between, the agnostics.
there is most definitely a minority, mostly silent, of devoted jehovah's witnesses present, too, but their contribution to the dialogue and dynamic of the board is minimal.
that small minority aside, it can be said the people who venture into here to communicate with one another share a common paradigm, and that is the watchtower is built on a foundation of clay.
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Nickolas
If I might be so presumptuous, I seek permission from those who have generously subscribed to this thread to raise a point of order. Let us, if we can, focus on speaking to the objective of the thread. Its lifetime will be short, measured in hours, but its effect on me personally and perhaps others who reference it has some potential to last a lifetime. It has already contributed much to my understanding and I hope I am not being overly greedy to want for more.
The WTBTS is my enemy. It has done and is doing harm to people I love and as a consequence it has lost whatever respect I may have had for it and whatever tolerance I may have allowed, however small, for it to be a part of my life. My life is finite and likely 3/4rs done. What remains is precious. I could be content, selfishly, to exorcise the WTBTS from my life and then just walk away and let it be, but my present proclivity is to contribute to its downfall. It could be, if I should actually succeed in opening the eyes of those for whom my love is absolute, that I will fade from the battle content to lick my wounds and live my life free from the influence of this organisation while it goes on doing harm to others. I hope I am a better man than that and that my gratitude would overwhelm my selfishness and prod me to continue on. That remains to be seen.
There is an ancient Arabic proverb that goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't buy into what some of you believe, but that doesn't matter to me at this juncture because it doesn't matter to the objective. If you are here contributing to this dialogue it is because we have a common enemy, for whatever personal or altruistic reasons that may be. I may, in another forum, accept an invitation from you to square off, take off the gloves and slug it out, but it will be another time and only if you invite me to. If we are allied in a common objective you will not attempt to ambush my closely held beliefs and I will reciprocate. It is a delicate dynamic, because the fundamental that each of us holds true within ourselves can be challenged only by full frontal attack with the heaviest of armaments. Let's not go there for now. Never if you don't want to.
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88
Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments
by Nickolas inthere's a wide cross section of thinkers on this board, representing christian belief and non-belief and points in between, the agnostics.
there is most definitely a minority, mostly silent, of devoted jehovah's witnesses present, too, but their contribution to the dialogue and dynamic of the board is minimal.
that small minority aside, it can be said the people who venture into here to communicate with one another share a common paradigm, and that is the watchtower is built on a foundation of clay.
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Nickolas
All great perspectives, suggestions and insights. I will re-read them over the course of the day and cross reference them with other material to understand their value and significance more fully. I very much appreciate all of this. Thank you.
An insight I was afforded in here a couple of days ago, one I did not appreciate at first, is there is an aspect of faith that one ignores only at the peril of others. And what could be more wrong than imperiling others? Some people don't need faith in their lives, others do. Faith to many is a sort of tether that keeps them together. I don't mean together as a group of faithful but together in the sense of self. I am an atheist. My truth is as raw and stark as it is wonderous and emancipating. To accept it, shoulder its weight and go on living is not something everyone has the capability of doing, let alone living life happily. If someone flees from you because she fears for her faith, it is because she perceives the alternative reality as a cold, dark, and terrifying abyss. Terror is a lonely place in one's mind from which one will do just about anything to escape, even the unthinkable. We should be careful not set out to destroy faith at its most basic, the oneness with some higher power deeply felt and treasured by some people. We should set out to destroy oppression, falsehood, manipulation and evil done in the name of faith like the cancers they are and allow those who simply need faith in their lives to retain it.
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88
Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments
by Nickolas inthere's a wide cross section of thinkers on this board, representing christian belief and non-belief and points in between, the agnostics.
there is most definitely a minority, mostly silent, of devoted jehovah's witnesses present, too, but their contribution to the dialogue and dynamic of the board is minimal.
that small minority aside, it can be said the people who venture into here to communicate with one another share a common paradigm, and that is the watchtower is built on a foundation of clay.
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Nickolas
What more could you ask for? Humour and insight. Thanks, all. Seems I have some research to do - thank you, TD and MS.