I was thinking that it is US who need the suffering.
Slow down, girl. I'm not on your page at all.
Nickolas
JoinedPosts by Nickolas
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
Nickolas
Yes, you're right, cofty. I have come to think that abortion is one of JWN's sacred cows. It's just too inflammatory a subject. One that cannot be discussed rationally. I'm not sure myself where I stand.
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
Nickolas
Here's one, since we were talking about suffering, that's bound to inflame the sensibilities of a whole bunch of people: (from "The God Delusion")
The anti-abortionist's next move in the verbal chess game usually goes something like this. The point is not whether a human embryo can or cannot suffer at present. The point lies in its potential. Abortion has deprived it of the opportunity for a full human life in the future. This notion is epitomized by a rhetorical argument whose extreme stupidity is its only defence against a charge of serious dishonesty. I am speaking of the Great Beethoven Fallacy, which exists in several forms.
another level of conversation, perhaps?
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
Nickolas
Very, Jeff.
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
Nickolas
Yes, cofty, I do. Thank you so much.
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
Nickolas
Did that sound a little overly-righteous? Sorry. I'm just in a good mood after having finished an extraordinary shiraz over a thick, medium rare blackened prime ribeye, smothered in mushrooms and fried onions with mashed potatoes and salad on the side, and then I'm reading about suffering and why it's kinda ok. Context. Carry on.
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
Nickolas
Ah, JWN's Leo Tolstoi. I enjoy your posts, Shelby You obviously put a great deal of thought and care into each and every one and they are always enlightening. From all the available evidence, suffering is a human condition that has been around since time immemorial. We have no record, written on paper or otherwise in stone, to the contrary. Suffering in the world has always been so great, so incomprehensible, that the more we perceive it the heavier a burden it becomes. When you include suffering endured by sub-human species, the burden becomes exponentially greater. Fact is we fat cats don't have a clue. We, theist and atheist alike, here sit in our comfortable chairs in our comfortable houses after having filled our bellies with the quality and quantity of food 90% of the rest of humanity could only hope to have and we make comment on suffering in the world. One consolation is the world is slowly getting better. Medicine has replaced medicine men and there aren't all that many mass starvations happening anymore. But no matter how you dress it up, suffering is suffering and it has absolutely no redeeming qualities.
-
328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
-
-
Nickolas
What is interesting is the absolute certainty with which people in this thread end the assertion "God is ____". How does one know these things?
It's been a lively, for the most part intelligent, discussion, but the thread after 11 pages could be subtitled "Practical examples of cognitive dissonance." Of course, we think its the other guy who's refusing to see the light, not us.
-
103
How the WTBTS creates atheists
by Nickolas ini am an atheist.
i arrived at this juncture in my life despite not wanting to.
when i first met the witnesses at 22 i was a seeker looking for answers to the question of life - in other words, prime cult target material.
-
-
Nickolas
Did I say I wasn't sure? (Tammy)
This was the thread, Tammy. Yours was the second post.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/208508/1/Belief-does-not-define-character
-
15
WT scars that run deep
by man in black inmy son who is 26 yrs.
old recently confided in my wife and myself that he is having a rough time moving on past the jw mindset.. he was associated with the witnesses for the first 24 years of his life, and he really tried to do the whole witness thing correctly, yet he was and still is a shy person.
now that he has been out for two years, he is having a lot of anger toward people who believe in god.
-
-
Nickolas
I started a thread yesterday positing that the Watchtower creates atheists, MIB. Some of the comments made are interesting, consistent with what your son is going through. While some folks agree with my contention, others do not, and their perspectives are valid. I became an atheist at least to some extent because of my aborted association with the WTBTS, but there are many others who saw the lies, endured the pain of leaving and still managed to keep their faith. Your son has an option. Not everyone is disposed to being atheist and happy with life. Therapy may help but in the end he needs to find himself again. I suggest you acquire a copy of Raymond Franz' book "Crisis of Conscience", copies of which are still available on Amazon.com and through freeminds and by all means read it yourself, but it may be something your son would benefit from too. It provides remarkable insights into the Society by one of its former inner circle who, despite the pain of having had his eyes opened about the Society, managed not to lose his faith. If your son has already closed that door for good, he might want to focus instead on expanding his mind by seeking greater understanding of the world. He is still very young, and the time he spent in the Watchtower was not wasted now that he has escaped it. He sees clearly now because at one time he did not, and that is a lesson he will never forget.