Abiogenesis is NOT a proven fact or even a scientific theory.
The same thing may be said about Creation, except that it makes less sense than abiogenesis.
Nickolas
JoinedPosts by Nickolas
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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Nickolas
If there is nothing special or unique about us and we are no more than mere flukes of evolution, why do we have issues with suffering? fairness? why do we differenciate between is and ought? why do we seek WHY when HOW is more than good enough? why do we imagine? why do we KNOW we exist other than just existing?
Pika answered well, but I think there's a point of understanding that is in order. We are not mere flukes of evolution, because the mechanism of evolution, natural selection, is not a process of chance. It is precisely the opposite. Chance does not enter into it once you get past abiogenesis.
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Alien Invasion, how would survive A hostile takeover?
by jam inwatching the history station, on speculation if there was a alien.
invasion.
they speculate that 70% of the world population would.
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Nickolas
Points to ponder:
1. Communication is the primary prerequisite to civilisation coming into being. Without communication there can be no civilisation.
2. Long distance communication is a prerequisite to advanced civilisation.
3. Advanced civilisation is a prerequisite to interstellar space travel.
4. SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, has been listening for evidence of extraterrestrial communications for 50 years, finding nothing. If it detects something tomorrow, it will have traveled to earth from its source at speeds at or near c.
5. SETI's first encounter, if it should ever happen, will be of the earliest long distance communications of the civilisation it detects and will not coincide with the ability to travel in space. The first transmissions of "I Love Lucy" are now 60 light years into space and still going.
6. Relativity limits speed to c. Nothing can travel faster, despite wormhole and other science fiction fantasies.
7. If we are ever visited by aliens, all the evidence (and logic) dictates that it will be hundreds of years from now at the earliest.
8. Relax. You have more to worry about a hostile takeover from the Chinese.
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Waking Up From a 34 Year Slumber.
by alg1052 injuly 11, 2011 will be 34 years since i was baptised as one of jw's.
the sleeping pill i took was in the form of them providing the information that made the bible come alive with the truth and insisting that they go by the bible not adding or taking away from it.
i had negative experiences from local brothers from time to time, however i excused them as part of being imperfect.
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Nickolas
Excellent introduction, alg. If you stick around, which you should do to help your awakening, you will be bumping into people like me. Atheists, I mean. The books already recommended are invaluable. I've read "Captives of a Concept" by Dan Cameron and I'm about midway through "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz (who, as you are probably aware was a member of the Governing Body for 9 years) and it in itself is a remarkable work that all Jehovah's Witnesses should read - except of course they are forbidden from doing so because if they read it they will no longer be Jehovah's Witnesses. I do not suggest that you abandon your faith because that might not be the best thing for you, but I do suggest you seek to understand non-theistic perspectives now that you have freed yourself from your bonds. You will have become an apostate, anyway, for reading the books already recommended, but be aware that it is only a label with about as much real significance as a small tuft of facial hair, attendant and dire retaliatory consequences notwithstanding. I also suggest you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens, but wait a few months to wake up entirely.
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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Nickolas
I've got to get some work done but I'll leave this little story as I go. When I was younger and less affluent I put meat on my family's table with a high powered rifle. Moose and deer, mostly. A moose would provide enough meat to supply two families for a year, a deer much less but still significant. All of the deer I killed were clean shots, as were almost all of the moose. There were two, however, that were not. The first was a cow, which I had shot at a considerable distance through its chest cavity, what is called a heart-lung shot. A moose's heart is the size of a cantelope and if it is hit along with the lungs it generally will cause the moose to die very quickly. But this shot missed the heart, punctured the lung at the point of bullet ingress and blew a hole the size of my fist out of the other lung. The animal walked about 10 feet and lay down, watching me as I approached her. She did not appear to be suffering but rather looked perfectly calm, almost curious, certainly beautiful in her own way. I shot her in the forehead at a distance of a couple of yards and then I wept. The second one was a bull I had been stalking for several hours. I located him at the edge of a clearing, about 100 yards out, but as I shouldered my rifle and fired he caught wind of me and turned to run and the bullet struck him in the hip, shattering his pelvis and dropping him on the spot. But he was very much alive as I approached and, this time, the experience was different. His eyes were as big as saucers and trained on me, and his nostrils were flaring and blowing hard. His teeth were chattering and his head was swinging back and forth slightly. When I got close he closed his eyes. I shot him in the head, and once again I wept. Animals experience much more than we might give them credit for.
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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Nickolas
I'm on your page, sab.
edit: consider, too, that many species of birds mate for life, including mourning doves. We have a pair of bluejays, who also mate for life, who are so old they're actually bald and no longer mating, but they're still together.
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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Nickolas
Evolution is what we go through when exposed to "enviromental changes" ( simplified yes, but bare with me)and we evolved when exposed to the environmental changes that was Love, compassion and a "higher moral".
I think you have that right, Paul.
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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Nickolas
This dear one, having assisted in healing a few others (including someone with some form of cancer), approached and told the young man, "I want to help you. I can heal you, if you have faith and want me to." The young man's response? "No thank you; I don't want to be healed. I LIKE me... just the way I am."
I would have reacted the same way, Shelby, but I might have silently added, "now get away from me, you fruitcake."
I truly hope it wasn't that I offended, dear Nick
Absolutely not, dear lady. I took offense to something you said months and months ago, but I realised soon after I was jumping to a wrong conclusion. I just didn't have words to respond. Still don't.
The question is: Does love itself evolve or is it just something we uncovered. Is it a force of nature that existed before us (like gravity) or is it a construct of the conscious mind?
My wife and I are bird lovers. We have two feeders in our back yard and we keep them full year-round. We have cardinals, gold and red finches, bluejays, grossbeaks, sparrows, nuthatches, doves, grackles, black birds, etc. etc. constantly in the bushes and trees that surround us. A sharp-shinned hawk has taken notice and every once in awhile it sits in our big walnut tree and waits. Last week it nailed a mourning dove, leaving only a pile of feathers on the lawn. The doves are into their second brood. Since last week, the mate of the hawk's victim has perched itself on a limb overhanging the pile of feathers just looking and waiting. It is still there as I type this. Is that love? Grief, perhaps? It's something, to be sure, but what?
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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Nickolas
ancient man had love in bucketloads for his own tribe, the suffering of which he could not tolerate, particularly if it could be alleviated by conquering and destroying those who were not his own and taking what they had for what was perceived to be a greater good. It is the way it was, and the way it still is.
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Why can't you ask questions?
by ihadnoidea ini know that some will disagree on this, and say you can ask questions.
yet, i ask you to honestly think what would happen if you openly started asking questions on jw doctrine or evolution.
likely you would be made to feel like i did below if you started asking these questions to other jws.. .
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Nickolas
I was a Watchtower bible student for almost two years. The thing that catalysed my departure was the angry reaction I got from my teacher when I didn't want to do the question/answer schtick at the end of the lesson, preferring to ask my own questions, in this case about what really happened (didn't happen) the previous year, 1975. The light went on. I made for the exit.