a few hypocritical goodies from said study edition, questions from readers, which starts on page 6. the article goes to great lenghts to point out that people in pre christian times were forgiven of their sins based on the sacrifice of the christ, which had not yet taken place.
fair enough.
the article explains that, in jehovah's eyes, the ransom was as good as done so it could be applied even though it was not yet paid.... ok... so if a married couple becomes intamite on the night before their wedding should we still form a jc?
Jesus did not shun sinners. He did good to them.
The GB will categorize apostates differently. Somehow they will twist it so that this logic doesn't follow for all. You won't be able to use it as an arguement to be able to speak to DF'd ones.
Perhaps something will come to be printed soon which covers their backsides on this very matter.
happy 70th john, you were one of the best.
your music still moves, inspires, and amazes me.
rip, you should have had many more..
Just think, during the LIVE AID stuff in the 80's... John would've been a LOT more outspoken than Geldof, and took it to a whole nother level.
RIP John. A REAL human being.
i was listening to the radio in the car while andy and julian were in the store a while ago.
grand rapids has a nice little indy, listener supported station.
this amazing song came on, so beautiful i just have to share.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMrNDnU6PPk&p=11929F3C226C4B80&playnext=1&index=10
Althea and Donna... One hit wonders, but DAMN they had good bubble perms.
As a kid, I loved Madness and the skinhead thing. Check out the cool dancing on 'One step beyond.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-uyWAe0NhQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkIz3-8wRgo&feature=related
This one is excellent to piss your neighbours off.... a cockney/jamaican mixture.
huge tires?
.
link didn't work.
can you please mention some examples of whole congregations leaving the wt?
i just saw a post of a congregation leaving in sicily in 1988, the 4 elders and 70 members.
.
Here's the thread. The video's been translated.
apparently a whole congregation in italy left the wbts.. but i don't know for sure as i don't understand italian.. could somebody please translate this youtube film.. you will put me out of my misery and inform the whole board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niuetcfpyfi .
thank you in advance.
This post is very interesting. A whole congregation said 'Screw it!' and left the Watchtower.
I thought I would translate this word for word. Some of it's a bit garbled because although they speak proper Italian, the accent is Sicilian, and at times, they speak too fast! I have transliterated it, so it kinda reads funny, but you get the sense of what they're trying to say.
(Begin) The JW's radically condemn this world because it's governed by Satan.
In Sicily a revolt broke out. In 1998 the whole body of elders and 70 publishers (the whole Congregation) in syracuse voluntarily quit the organization. They are dealing with the biggest mass disassociation in the whole of Italy so far.
"When the circuit overseer came, he criticized us for teaching stuff beyond what the organization teaches. We publicly encouraged the whole congregation to help old ones, young ones etc. Conveying the idea to encourage them to help each other. That's what we tried, to teach christian love.But he said that even if it was right, it went against the organization because the governing body from the organization gave a particular prominence in this time of the end, to the preaching work. Naturally, we try to encourage this to the maximum, this love, but it robbed time from the preaching work."
"He said 'Today what characterizes apostates is love. They speak a lot about love. we noticed that our works were these, instead of turning towards christian ideals like love, christ, god and man's wellbeing, it was directed towards a structure held in america. a governing body of JW's, therefore in short, we have served for years a power structure which was not christian, but this fact was crying out to us."
"So there's not to be christian love in the congregation?"
"It's a love, we would call, 'remotely driven'. because the rules are manyfold. The rules that are so imposed by his association. They don't have the time to get to know the real fundamental truth, one from the other. They continuously control everyone... who's got a skirt that's too short..rch...who's passed in front... who's started to talk to a priest. who's visited their parents who aren't JWs, who's gone to a dancing competition, or had a birthday, or lit a candle, etc..There are so many rules, they are continuously watching one another. On this aspect, instead of getting to know someone deeply, they like to judge one another. It was a really difficult job, because, from one point talking about these things, the other, on the other hand, says on the contrary. The Watchtower tells us to follow these blessed rules strictly!"
"The fthat come are really to cry about, without question. They say it is forbidden for a mother to invite a daughter to lunch, because she is a JW and she's left. The bigger picture is... It's worse for the mother rather than the daughter, because there's a procession... "(Cut off)
"You had a son who left, and two who were still in?"
(Old lady) "Yes I did"
"What does this mean?"
"It's an enormous feeling. You feel pulled out of it. You can imagine. I have two sons who don't want to see him. I don't want to even think about it."
"What did the elders say when your son left?"
"How many things... how many things..."
"They said we shouldn't see him anymore because he's a murderer. It was just like a court, 3 or 4 people, they make a judicial committee. That's why every one of them plays their own part. One says, 'Your son is a murderer, you know, don't you?'...A murderer, but what are you saying? I started to cry. They said, 'look! yes! he is without a heart! he didn't cry! He's not sorry, he was fine!' You have to say it, you have to say it with your own mouth. Stand up and say 'My son is an apostate!"
"Seeing your mother's suffering, did you consider to repent and come back?"
(the son)
"to be honest, this -No! With all the respect that I have for my mother, naturally, my principles, to be convinced of the certainty, not even, to make a mistake. But in that moment, I was certain I could help others, I could help them. We are never ever encouraged to help others, or spread these things.... not to have a crusade against JW's.... Us, now, publicly we can say, clearly on this occasion, the JW person can say, 'we are human, like the rest...' we understand more now... But it's against the organization, unfortunately, it's a poor religion. I made a written letter, it's difficult to cut the tentacles of this big poor religion.. I have to appreciate.... (starts to cry).... Er, scuse me. I'm full of emotion. Also, because I was telling something that made me shake.... I was saying I appreciate the way that my mum handled it. It's still so encouraging- "(Finished clip)
(elders drinking coffee)
"The major part of the sincere JWs who listen to what we're saying will feed their perplexity in the split, fully. Those of us who are compelled by resentment that we have cultivated from pride, there was something in us, something that made us lose the objective... the new order...lost the kingdom of god...this is what robbed us of our faith. This is what you or they will believe."
"They won't suspect you've been removed because of pride?"
"Absolutely, no. I don't have it. This is full of pride to say it. I would say to these persons, get the proof. You want to ask these questions to the elders in your congregation. You want o give them some questions. To those that respond, not to entrench themselves behind the infallibility of the presumed governing body, or FDS, but giving the objective reply. That is, the proof is this, if an organization is directed by holy spirit, they would have to demonstrate in this century of life, and I say, 'why, when we have requested the watchtower society, for what reason do we have to refusea transplant... then why do we have to then accept a transplant? An explanation was never given. The Watchtower society still has to furnish our faithful ones a reply. Another question is this- why up to 20 years ago, you could not receive a serum, a vaccine that could save your life?... now, serums, vaccines are allowed. In any organization in which it's not allowed to put these questions. an organization in which it's said 'there's freedom!' In which the conscience is your push on all other things, in which I, in what I decide with my conscience, or with my feelings, I have to give my son blood, because in that moment, I hold the ultimate, and only safeguard for life. I can be expelled out, without remission of sins, because I followed my conscience. Therefore, an organization in which my brothers, who have to assist me, became my judges, deprive me of my eternal life, because disfellowshipping means just that. So at this point, I ask sincere people, have you ever reflected on these things? Me, every now and again I think about it. But I had so much fear, to begin being an apostate, that closed all in a phrase, on me myself. (???) If Jehovah agrees, it means it's right. When Jehovah wants to change things, he will let me know by means of the Watchtower. There were times when, now it's useless to analyze them, this explanation that they gave me didn't satisfy me. (End of recording)
i was listening to the radio in the car while andy and julian were in the store a while ago.
grand rapids has a nice little indy, listener supported station.
this amazing song came on, so beautiful i just have to share.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXSR8aZ6l-Q&p=002399952ED07DA1&playnext=1&index=41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fanxnVtLg4g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfAqLzH_L74&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvFYuWt7eIg
I love all the oldies...ska/dancehall etc. I saw UB40 at the St Andrews gound in the 80's. Best concert of my life. Wish I could'a seen Bob...
I think my mother dropped me on the head as a baby.
i have been with my jw boyfriend for about a year and a half.
he was living with his parents when we first started dating, but now we are living together.
his mother knows, but not his father (who is the one who got them into the jw's and is more strict about it).
Some good advice so far. You haven't mentioned whether he is baptized or not. Sometimes parents can give their kids a hard time even if they're not, and they get in with an 'unbeliever'.
I still think you need to be very wary of him because as an example, my sisters were raised by my mum to be JWs till they were 15, with bible study and all that, but never got baptized. When they reached 30-ish, they decided they wanted to get baptized after 15 years of a normal 'worldly' life. As I've said before, the mindset is deep if he's grown up in that environment, with those beliefs pummeled into his brain as a child. The JW religion is not an ordinary religion, it is very peculiar and dangerous. I suggest you research it thoroughly. Great idea to bring him on here. I f you have any negative signs or doubts about his intentions, I would say run like hell.
(take notice that nobody's told you to just stay with him)
i have been with my jw boyfriend for about a year and a half.
he was living with his parents when we first started dating, but now we are living together.
his mother knows, but not his father (who is the one who got them into the jw's and is more strict about it).
Tough call. Before you do anything I would try and see the extent to which he disbelieves his old religion. You Definitely don't want him going back into it once you're married. You'll always have a problem with this unfortunately. They will shun you once they are both aware of you living together. Getting married will make things worse. If your BF's dad finds out, he might tell the elders, then your BF will be disfellowshipped.
I say again, have a BIIIIIIIIIIIG chat about religion with your partner, coz you definitely don't want him going back in to that religion. There is a mindset that can run deep, especially if he's been brought up as a child in the Watchtower Organization.
It won't be easy for you either way you look at it.
Sorry, Best of luck x
see here:.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/09/so_thats_why_i_cant_be_a_jehov.php.
I know an elder with a beard, a full face jesus-job. He's had it for about 20 years. He's been an elder for maybe 7-8 years, before that he was a miserable serpent for about 5 years. WTF? He's the only one I've ever seen.
