Curtains

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Posts by Curtains

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  12

  My Husband Cuts through the BS!

  by 3dogs1husband in

  1. social
  2. humour

  a long time ago my husband came up with this.. the wtbts holds out our hope like a carrot on the end of a stick, and we should be motivated to all ways want and try to get it.

  if you change you mind in anyway and no longer want the carrot, or just wanna stand and eat the grass, you then will be beaten by the stick.. .

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  Curtains

  true :))
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  31

  It's OK Lurkers, Paranoid former JW's, and even you current JW's....

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's ok.... to post here on the internet, on jwn, and other jw related forums.. first of all, as we all know, the governing body doesn't provide a forum for jw's to "associate" with their brothers and sisters.

  i'm just guessing, and i could be wrong, that its harder to control the flock when they have free access to information and each other.

  damn electricity and the technology it brings..... anyway, i realize that for anyone leaving, or for practicing jw's, to post is a nervous thing.

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  Curtains

  it is hard not to be paranoid. A family member told me about this site and I have been reading many topics. Family mmembers can change and go back - so everything is iffy

  I like the bible topics best.
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  135

  No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

  by sobrino1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

  i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

  " so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

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  Curtains

  thanks Leolaia - for making these passages intelligible.

  "The difference in number and national affiliation is also intelligible with the view that both represent the same group from different points of view, as they draw rather clearly on different conceptions of Israel found in the OT and NT."

  This is what I have been grasping for - intelligibility. When I used to read the NWT on its own it was intelligible but when reading with the explanatory literature produced by Jehovahs witnesses I'd struggle to comprehend. And now when I try to grapple with Debator it is hard to get my head around Jehovahs witness' explanations as they are very unintelligible when compared with the bible. They pick out remote verses that have nothing to do with one another and are from different contexts and then they produce what I think of as an additive rich, fat laden unhealthy sausage of an explanation.

  you said

  "This is just an instance of the YLT being too literal; this is simply a matter of grammatical agreement in number (imagine saying "two dozens" instead of "two dozen"). This can be seen in the verses that follow that khiliades is plural there as well, and it does not refer to a sum more than 12,000 because 12 x 12,000 = 144,000."

  I see.

  you said

  "Such as the tribes listed, which do not correspond to any literal tribes of Israel (the twelve listed do not correspond to any OT list of the tribes) or Christianity (which was not divided up into tribes). Rather the tribal specification is a metonymic application of "Israel" and its basic features to the Christian community at large."

  I understand the idea of metonym - how interesting to see this in the bible. These devices are often found in declammatory material that is designed to be heard to make associations that will be familiar to listeners. Love it - thanks again Leolaia
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  135

  No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

  by sobrino1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

  i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

  " so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

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  Curtains

  I was looking at Youngs translation and he puts 144000 in the plural - one hundred and fortyfour thousands

  I want to ask Leolaia if young is simply being very literal. Otherwise his translation suggests there are many 144 thousands - this would make it quite interesting if he suggest such huge multitiudes
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  135

  No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

  by sobrino1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

  i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

  " so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

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  Curtains

  debator, I think you are right about the great crowd being a different group as they come out of all nations, tribes and peoples and tongues whereas the 144000 come out of certain jewish tribes. My excuse is that I didn't used to pay attention when I was a witness and still am quite sloppy in my comprehension (I don't have a lot of time to post here as my family are all witnesses)

  though both groups are in heaven (wherever that might be) , they are in the temple and are in sight of the lamb, rev7:9. I'm sticking to both groups being born again too as Jesus said all his followers must be born again.

  I agree with designs that revelation is to be taken symbolically.

  And Leolaia makes a good point about Jehovahs witnesses doing what they accuse other religions of doing when she said

  "You mean like how the notion of a "great crowd of other sheep" is constructed from out-of-context Bible verses?"
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  135

  No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

  by sobrino1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

  i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

  " so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

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  Curtains

  debator

  take another look -

  4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
  5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
  from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
  from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
  6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
  from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
  from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
  7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
  from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
  from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
  8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
  from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
  from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

  9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
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  135

  No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

  by sobrino1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

  i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

  " so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

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  Curtains

  debator in revelation the 144,000 and the great crowd are one and the same group. Read revelation 7 in its entirety and you will maybe see and hear with John's ears and eyes - lol.

  and please no lies
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  22

  I Miss Field Service!

  by believingxjw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yep, i miss those good old field service days but now i'm not allowed to join in the house to house work.

  so i've decided to do what i was taught to do instead; letter writing.. i'm going to take the money i once contributed to the kingdom hall and buy stamps with it.

  then i'll give a good witness to many in my area or in my state or across the country.

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  Curtains

  my sympathies on not being allowed to share in field service. I hope you have much joy in your new field service activity.
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  135

  No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)

  by sobrino1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm new to the forum, though i had been a lurker for quite some time now.

  i studied w/ the witnesses for a number of years, to be specific, for 10 years (since i was a child) but never actually became one; though, i was counted as one in the yearbooks as a "publisher.

  " so, as far as i got was as an unbaptized publisher.

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  Curtains

  the good thing about Sobrino's understanding is that being born again is not restricted to a small group.

  sobrino said

  "Another thing is that Witnesses often say that only the 'anointed' need to be born again and thus they are the one's that inherit the kingdom, in heaven. That is surely an interesting belief, but equally unscriptural. Matthew 25:34: “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world. This text very clearly demonstrates and shows that the "sheep", supposedly the "great crowd" of Witnesses, will also "inherit the kingdom." It also demonstrates that the kingdom of God or as Matthew calls it, the kingdom of the heavens, will be on earth. According to Witnesses, this group of "sheep" aren't born again and yet they still inherit the kingdom! Though this kingdom is supposedly in heaven. According to Jesus, not so." To me this is a huge problem for Jehovahs witnesses and they have to falsify almost all of the new testament to support their doctrine of denying being born again to those who have an earthly hope.
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  20

  ART! What the hell is it?????

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  art!.

  what the hell is it?.

  i can't tell you what it is, but, i can tell you what i think it does.. art changes you.. it stops you cold in your tracks.. when you finally walk away from it you keep on thinking about it.. you can't shrug it off easily.. it's now a different world for you.. .

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  Curtains

  Hi terry - I agree. Another way of putting it is to say that some art has soul