great essay eric.
Curtains
JoinedPosts by Curtains
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Change and Challenges Facing the Watchtower
by eric356 insome of you may have seen my previous thread of almost the same title.
i've thought a bit more and formatted my thoughts into a longer essay.
change and challenges facing the watchtower.
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Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
I asked: what exactly are you having difficulty with as I am quite happy to explain further
You replied
I'm not sold that it is my difficulty, not just yet.
You are minimizing the fact that God is commanding something of us that, by definition, is NOT compulsory. Making deep affection of something or someone a command tries to force it and make it compulsory.
Love cannot be Law, since love is earned. At least that's how it works in our existence.
I see one of two options here:
1. We love God without knowing it because it what we are designed to
Which defeats the purpose of it being a command. There is no free choice if it is our designation.
2. We are coerced into having, at the bare minimum, a general affinity with God that could eventually turn into real love.
Say I kidnap you and bring you into my house. I feed you the best food, I cloth you with the most comfortable garments. I never let you leave my house and demand that you like me, and eventually love me.
That's what those verses are describing. God created us against our will then demanded that we like and love him. That's not the way things work. You would never end up loving me because you would always be my captive.
-Sab
My reply
powerful illustrations to back up your points. And I agree that this is one way of understanding those verses. In this we see God in (1) above as coercer and in (2) as captor
the point I am making is that there is another way of understanding those verses which is to see them as assisting life. They would assit life, rather than capture it by providing fruit for contemplation, for inspiration, for creative endeavours to maximise and extend life rather than capture it. God in his scenario is the other, he is the beloved and the reader is necessitated/obligated to be the lover. At a point when life seems stuck a scripture like this can free it. A meaningful goal is presented. you get my drift.
Another point is that love is held up as the greatest virtue, one that enables connections with the unknown and unknowable and with one's neighbour. But in both cases love of neighbour and love of God are involved in life rather than being above life. If God is above life and directing from somewhere outside of life then your 2 points above definitely apply - god as captor and god as coercer.
edit: the view I have outlined above is compatible with atheism, with agonosticism and with being a believer. THe most important aspect is that it enables one to step into (and out of) all three positions and have epiphanies whilst enjoying empathy.
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50
Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
what exactly are you having difficulty with as I am quite happy to explain further
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50
Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
I'm simply looking at the lessons Jesus is teaching - thats all.
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50
Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
One character is saying this about another character. Two different characters are mentioned. No character says "I command you to love me". This is clear enough.
The important point though is that loving god and loving neighbour is a moral injuntion or a moral code rather than just a command seeking compliance. It is something not just to obey but also to contemplate.
edit: but i'll not say anything more on the subject if you want to take your thread down a particular route. I agree with Aguest in that I too just wanted to put my view out there.
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Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
I have looked at those verses several times, also in the interlinear - nowhere does it say "I command you to love me". Are you saying that God is the author of the bible and therefore if he gives a command to love God..., then he is in effect saying "I command you to love me"?
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Are they really that bad???
by anonymous4 inhad a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
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Curtains
anonymous4 there are loads of ways of making connections with people. Have you considered further education if you haven't already completed your education? hobbies and clubs are another avenue. You may find people there with whom you are able to make a spiritual connection. If not then as you are a young person you can always come back to religion later in life.
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Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
where does it say "I command you to love me"?
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50
Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
Sabastious I disagree with you that commanding someone to love is like telling someone to be spontaneous because commanding someone to love may be seen as an invitation to contemplate love in all its complexities and to see whether one is inspired to reciprocate.
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50
Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?
by sabastious inmark 12: 28-31 - 28 one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
noticing that jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, of all the commandments, which is the most important?.
29 the most important one, answered jesus, is this: hear, o israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.30 love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 the second is this: love your neighbor as yourself.
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Curtains
I honestly don't have a problem with these verses. A loving deity wants the best for his creations and wants to teach them how to enhance and maximise their lives. Whats wrong with that? Also the command to love God is described as the first and greatest commandment. So if creatures want to be great this command will make them so.