Curtains

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Posts by Curtains

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  53

  Uh-oh...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/?gt1=38001.

  ah, well... nobody's perfect.. peace!.

  sa, of the "well, maybe except christ class", on her own....

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  Curtains

  tec

  Well, I'm not sure what was so deluded about the opinion of the OP in regard to this topic?

  nothin deluded about the opinion of the OP - I agree . I was referring to what came after - Aguest spin

  But apart from that I think in this thread the distinction between NASA and science needs to be spelled out and emphasized as there does seem to be some confusion. NASA seems to me to be a state organisation - whereas science itself is neutral. I think if the scientists in this case had been left to get on with experimenting and verifying their experiments they would not now be in this positon of seeming to have rushed their experiments.

  Then there is a huge difference between scientific truth and spiritual truth. To draw analogies between the two in order to suggest that personal spiritual truth goes through a process (albeit a different process) of verification like science is deluded. what I mean tosay is that juxtaposing the two processes is deluded. Scientfic truth is repeatable under laboratory conditions whereas spiritual truth is not, although I get the impression that Aguest suggests that her experiences with Jesus Christ are repeatable in christians and that if they don't experience what she is experiencing they are not working hard enough or not doing it right. I would be glad to be corrected on this.

  I want to be clear though that I am not denying the realness of spiritual experiences but the fact that these experiences are real does not mean that they can be placed side side with the facts of science.
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  310

  Are they really that bad???

  by anonymous4 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

  is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

  :-).

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  Curtains

  Curtains- sorry, maybe a bit unclear. Let met explain what I meant further:

  I thought by what you said you meant that be getting involved it would cause lots of division and hurt within the family? Maybe you didn't mean that.

  That's why I posted the verses to show that even Jesus said that would happen if you follow him.

  anon4 - thanks for explaining. Although the above happens that is not what I meant. What I did mean is the degree to which you must give up your own life, submerge your own personality and deny yourself to slave for the watchtower organisation. For example further education is strongly discouraged. Families must always put the organisaton and its rules first. Christmas, birthdays, Easter etc are not allowed. This is bad enough but children as young as 4 and 5 must demonstrate this loyalty at school. If they don't they have to deal with the pressure of losing friends and standing in the congregation. Women are marginalised and taught to be subservient to baptized males - this applies even if the male is a child of 14. Meetings are geared towards doing more preaching to advertize that the organisation is the mouthpiece of god. Jesus Christ is also marginalised. Emotion and spontaniety is suppressed and many witnesses suffer depression. These are some of the things that are required of Jehovahs witnesses and that do violence to people. I agree that to some extent other religions and even culture itself does this but it is the extremes to which a JW is required to go that I find worrying and am warning you about.
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  310

  Are they really that bad???

  by anonymous4 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

  is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

  :-).

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  Curtains

  anonymous4 -I don't see the co-relation here. please explain

  Hi curtains- you said it requires that you do a lot of violence to yourself and to your loved ones in order to chisel out badness, what do you mean?

  What about luke 12:53 and mat 8:22

  before i answer any of your other questions you need to clarify yourself above
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  310

  Are they really that bad???

  by anonymous4 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

  is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

  :-).

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  Curtains

  anonymous4, welcome to JWN. I felt the same as you when I first started studying with jehovahs witnesses except that I did not think of asking nor pursue asking the question below (which you ask in your opening post), nor have anywhere like this to ask it

  is there any real reasons why I shouldn't want to get involved further?

  we have been involved and are here to tell you that the story they tell, which seems to tick all the boxes - (good people looking forward to a paradise earth in which only good people like them will live) - requires that you do a lot of violence to yourself and to your loved ones in order to chisel out badness. You have to live a very narrow life to make the story beautiful and apealing to others. All the time the leaders quietly break their own rules to suit themselves and to keep their self serving ideology in place.
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  53

  Uh-oh...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/?gt1=38001.

  ah, well... nobody's perfect.. peace!.

  sa, of the "well, maybe except christ class", on her own....

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  Curtains

  I have to admit, aguest, you are sounding very deluded. I have felt like defending you in the past for the sake of your christian friends who seem to care for you a lot but these long rambling posts about your personal conversations with the Lord sound quite strange and uninspiring especially when you try to put your revelations on a par with science.
• 
  53

  Uh-oh...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/?gt1=38001.

  ah, well... nobody's perfect.. peace!.

  sa, of the "well, maybe except christ class", on her own....

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  Curtains

  just n from bethel, nowadays Dawkins memes are everywhere not just in his books. But I'll own that I'm barking up the wrong tree as I do have a lot of respect for science. However the NASA funded scientists let the side down badly by publishing their findings prematurely and using bad science.
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  53

  Uh-oh...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/?gt1=38001.

  ah, well... nobody's perfect.. peace!.

  sa, of the "well, maybe except christ class", on her own....

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  Curtains

  just n from bethel I assure I was not commenting on the moral calibre of scientists vs christians but simply commenting on how you framed your oppositions in order to make your points - just like Dawkins - nickolas also seemed to draw a parallel.

  nicholas

  Exactly how many Kingdom Halls are in your community, Curtains?

  I don't consider that the Jehovahs witnesses who attend kingdom halls in my area have had the opportunity to examine scientific evidence to the degree that believers on this board have. It seems to me that more believers change their minds, when consistently provided with scientifc evidence against chrished beliefs than those who don't on this board.
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  53

  Uh-oh...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/?gt1=38001.

  ah, well... nobody's perfect.. peace!.

  sa, of the "well, maybe except christ class", on her own....

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  Curtains

  just in from bethel, Richard Dawkins paints a very saintly pic of scientists and the scientific community in order to draw a contrast with religious fundamentalists.

  The checks and balances of science yield facts about our world that encompasses very little compared to the realities a spiritual life yields and touches upon. But I don't think believers should scoff at science as there is a place for science in religious life.
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  53

  Uh-oh...

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/?gt1=38001.

  ah, well... nobody's perfect.. peace!.

  sa, of the "well, maybe except christ class", on her own....

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  Curtains

  lol I don't believe this saintly image of scientists and the scientific community you guys are drawing and the awful image of believers as people who "who not welcome any process that might prove their conclusions incorrect" - its bullcrap . Most of us here are living proof of believers who are prepared to examine the evidence and alter our beliefs. Diehard head in the sand believers are very few and far between.
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  25

  Incredible Phone Call...Feedback Appreciated

  by badcompany in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am a da'd dub circa 1993 (born in).

  i have been an extremely successful business owner over the years but about 6 months ago augered in from about 60k feet.

  my jw parents have been aware of my situation.

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  Curtains

  lots of elders are waking up to the truth about the truth. Perhaps this has happened to your father and he is reaching out to you. Call him and dig around a little as he may not be sure how you feel about the truth. If you DA'ed because of lifestlye and not because of doctrine he may be unsure how you feel about spiritual truth.