walls of jericho: JW's don't even realize they are Christophobic.
No, they are just like the first Christians and are Yahweh-centric.
fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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443
Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"
by breakfast of champions inthis is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.
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443
Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"
by breakfast of champions inthis is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.
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fulltimestudent
M*A*S*H: Polygamy?
What a grand idea, M*A*S*H! Penile circumference tests show most heterosexual males are fascinated by two women having it off, and likely fantasise, about having two women in bed with them. Do all the Christians here, get off on the thought of Abraham and Sarah and Hagar, all in bed together?
Or, Jacob, Rachel and Leah in bed together?
What fun those faithful old patriarch's must've had with two women in bed, and all with Yahweh's blessing. I predict, M*A*S*H, that if you're righta nd this is the grand announcement, that the modern day servants of Yahweh will increase like the sands of the sea. I may even consider going back myself, in body if not in spirit.
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Help me keep this site active
by Old Goat inthe watch tower history blog is the best out there.
the owners are considering shutting it down for lack of blog visits.
maybe a visit and a comment would help keep it alive.. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
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fulltimestudent
I understand your POV steve2.
And, I guess Old Goat's suggested solution is short term only. Maybe we need an internet museum for old (and useless) religions. There was once a site (dealing with ancient religion) called, "Where old Gods go to die," a sort of retirement village for the un-worshipped gods of the past. Purely a virtual place. ( I heard that Yahweh and Jesus made a forward booking, and all the other old gods put on a big protest and moved out.
I still argue for some way to preserve the information on the web-site in question.
Maybe some of the other web-sites could link it, like JWfacts, as an example. So that those who want to nosey around in the past can do so.
Strange, isn't it? IF I could have my life over, I think I'd like to be a historian. Not much money in it, but interesting to tease out what may have happened at some juncture in history.
The reason it would never have happened is because (as you've likely guessed) is that I became a witness and university was a no-no! Now I argue for the preservation of information about the JW religion.. haha! but part of the reason I do, is that (likely) the blokes at the top would like to see that information dead and buried, lost forever, so that they can make up a new mythology.
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In connection with Malcom, how interesting that he's with his father in 1915, during the well publicised debate with the reverend Troy, and in 1917 asks for exemption from the military draft (as a Christian) but then in 1918 he enlists in the army.
What happened? Did he break then with Joe R, or did he undergo a change of mind as to military service?
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Help me keep this site active
by Old Goat inthe watch tower history blog is the best out there.
the owners are considering shutting it down for lack of blog visits.
maybe a visit and a comment would help keep it alive.. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
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fulltimestudent
steve2: A blog site that needs others to request visits to avoid closing down is hardly worthy of staying up and running. If you need to artificially pump life into something that would otherwise die, isn't it a kindness to let it die?
Steve, is that an argument for legitimisation by popularity? (grin)
Sadly, so much knowledge of the past has been lost for a variety of reasons. It would be wonderful to know more about the early days of Christianity. We only know what was saved, and what was saved was often only saved by the victors in ideological battles.
Witness the arguments of Arian, seeking to preserve the notions of Jewish Christianity in which was not portrayed. Much of what he wrote was burned by the victors, and most of his arguments can only be reconstructed via the Athanasian counter arguments. How wonderful for historians if a cave could be found with copies of all the Arian wrote.
Think also of the famous library of Alexandria. How wonderful if that still existed. Yet it was burned during wars, famously the ideological war of Christians who tried to destroy anything not in the Bible, and then again by the Muslims for similar reasons -( the decree of Pope Theophilus in 391 AD; and the Muslim conquest of Egypt in (or after) AD 642.)
I argue that the site has value, at least for those who wish to understand a little more about the organisation that wasted our lives. A rational argumetn based on knowledge has far more value than the screaming of an irrational mob.
Flooded as we are by a surfeit of information all that's asked is that we visit and read from time to time.
Scroll through that site - the information is worth saving, though I have no idea how. Maybe a post about the information from time to time on on this site.
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Help me keep this site active
by Old Goat inthe watch tower history blog is the best out there.
the owners are considering shutting it down for lack of blog visits.
maybe a visit and a comment would help keep it alive.. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
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fulltimestudent
And what about this fore-runner of the (supposedly new) literature trolleys now being used.
Now even I did not know (humble look) about the 'dawn mobile' as it was officiall called, though it was also known as the "Cole-wagon'
There is an entertaining article in the 1908 convention report from Cincinnati, Ohio (pages 79 and 80), where James Cole (with A H Macmillan as helper) demonstrated the new Dawn-Mobile to the colporteurs at their special meeting. While “Dawn-Mobile” was the official title, nearly everyone at the time called it the “Cole-Wagon.”
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Help me keep this site active
by Old Goat inthe watch tower history blog is the best out there.
the owners are considering shutting it down for lack of blog visits.
maybe a visit and a comment would help keep it alive.. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
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fulltimestudent
And this post on old Joe R's son Malcolm:
Malcom aged 18
Six years later at age 24.
Looks better than Joe R huh?
The post gives a lot of information about Malcom and the family, note that they are all dead. Poor old Joe's prophesy, that, Millions Now Living Will Never Die, failed, as did Jesus own prophesy about his return.
Malcom Cameron Rutherford was born on November 16, 1892, the only child of Joseph F Rutherford and Mary Fetzer. His photograph at age 18 is found in the 1911 convention report as “Pastor Russell’s stenographer” on the Transcontinental Tour. Around this time the whole family were part of the Bethel family in Brooklyn. The main census of Bethel in Kings, Brooklyn, was taken on April 29-30, 1910, and lists CTR and a collection of familiar names, but the Rutherford family is missing. However, there is a census page dated May 14, 1910 by a different enumerator, with the word “supplemental” at the top, which gives a few extra names for 122 and 124 Columbia Heights and People’s Pulpit Association. And there we find Jos(eph) F Rutherford, Mary Rutherford and Malcom C Rutherford all living together with a few other well-known Bible Student names, including Charles W Hek, nominal editor of the Bible Students Monthly. For the Rutherford entries, Joseph is an Attorney and Malcom a Mail Clerk; and under “Industry” is “Bible and Tract Society”. Joseph and Mary are down as assistants, and Malcolm (aged 17) is down as a boarder. Ships’ passenger lists show that Malcom, now aged 22, accompanied his parents for at least part of a trip to Europe in 1914. According to “Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose” Rutherford Snr. had been giving lectures in Germany, and then was on board a boat from Hamburg to Britain when war was declared. He remained in Britain until September, and then the whole family (including Malcom) arrived back in New York from Liverpool, England, on the Mauretania in late September 1914. In the June 1, 1915, New York census Malcom is not in Bethel, but neither are his parents. Less than six weeks before the census, Rutherford Snr. was the other side of the country involved in a well publicized and published debate with Baptist John H Troy in Los Angeles. Malcom was with him. The report of the debate in the May 1, 1915 WT, has Rutherford Snr. describing his son rendering assistance by his side. Malcom next surfaces around 1917 with his draft registration card. This provides his birth date of November 16, 1892, and states that he was currently 24 years old. He was now living in Los Angeles, employed as a book-keeper and clerk. It is interesting to note that he claimed exemption from the draft on the grounds of being a member of the International Bible Students Association. The genealogical website Ancestry.com also has what is called his “soldier photograph” from this time which is at the head of this article. However, the records of the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs note that Malcom subsequently enlisted on September 10, 1918 and was discharged on December 24, 1918. His father was in prison by this time. By the 1920 census, Malcom is married to Pauline Short (getting married at age 25) and living in Los Angeles, California. On this occasion he puts down his occupation as attorney. You can then trace his subsequent movements over decades via census returns and city directories. One entry of interest is from the 1944 Monrovia City, California, Directory. This has Malcom C Rutherford (clerk) and Pauline S Rutherford living at 159 Stedman Place. At the same address is Mary Rutherford, widow of J F Rutherford. This is Mary’s home, so Malcom and Pauline have obviously moved in with her. Pauline Short Rutherford died on August 29, 1948, and was buried in Forest Lawn Memorial Park, Glendale. There is no gravestone with that name, but there is one with the name Bobby Rutherford, “beloved wife,” with the exact years for Pauline (1896-1948), so we might safely assume this was a pet name for her. Malcom remarried in 1950 to a widow Eleanor F Nedell (c.1904-1980). She too was buried in Forest Lawn Memorial Park, Glendale, although the headstone for Eleanor F Rutherford reads 1914-1979. Following her death, Malcom lived on until 1989 (aged 96) and was also buried in the same cemetery. You can see his grave marker below, reproduced by kind permission of “Claire” from the Find a Grave website.
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Help me keep this site active
by Old Goat inthe watch tower history blog is the best out there.
the owners are considering shutting it down for lack of blog visits.
maybe a visit and a comment would help keep it alive.. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
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fulltimestudent
Where else do you find such interesting information as this post on the Rutherford graves:
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 31, 2014
The Rutherford graves
I am indebted to "Claire" of Find a Grave, who supplied the photograph of Malcom's grave marker, and who kindly went back to confirm the connection between the three Rutherford markers. She apologizes for not having grass clippers with her on this occasion...
The markers from left to right are for Bobby (Pauline) Rutherford (first wife), Eleanor Rutherford (second wife) and Malcom Rutherford. You can see the markers more clearly if you check the Find a Grave site with the information supplied in the original article.
The dates for Eleanor are strongly suspect, but this is not uncommon with grave stones when they are put in place some time after the person has died. The question remains as to who arranged for and paid for the stones for Malcom ("in loving memory") and Eleanor. The Ancestry site indicates that Eleanor had family from her first marriage. They are listed as "private" which may well mean they are still alive. -
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Help me keep this site active
by Old Goat inthe watch tower history blog is the best out there.
the owners are considering shutting it down for lack of blog visits.
maybe a visit and a comment would help keep it alive.. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
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fulltimestudent
I support Old Goat's plea.
I'm not quite sure of the objections that some are offering to the blog ( http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/ ) but isn't there room for any material that helps people see how the organisation to which we (well, most of us) once belonged developed and grew to what we now see. If there's no absolute religion, then there is no absolute no-religion. (grin)
There's some good stuff on that site - I recommend exploring it, its a repository of material that I'm sure the inheritors of the religion would like to see hidden for ever.
May I recommend the site to all genuine seekers of Watchtower understanding.
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Was Jesus fully Human? How babies were made in those days.
by fulltimestudent ini feel confident that most visitors to this site, understand the essential conflict at the heart of christianity.
how could jesus be fully human and simultaneously be a divine being who descended (supposedly, some thing jesus specifically claimed to be) from heaven.. as jws we may have solved this tricky point by saying that yahweh transferred the life of jesus into mary's womb, and so jesus was born fully human.. but if we remove the blindfold of faith, we immediately 'see' the problem.
in our contemporary view of the reproductive process, we can be certain that there is a female 'egg,' that is fertilised by male sperm.
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fulltimestudent
I feel confident that most visitors to this site, understand the essential conflict at the heart of Christianity. How could Jesus be fully human and simultaneously be a divine being who descended (supposedly, some thing Jesus specifically claimed to be) from heaven?
As Jws we may have solved this tricky point by saying that Yahweh transferred the life of Jesus into Mary's womb, and so Jesus was born fully human.
But if we remove the blindfold of faith, we immediately 'see' the problem. In our contemporary view of the reproductive process, we can be certain that there is a female 'egg,' that is fertilised by male sperm. No sperm, then no baby. Of course, an all-powerful Yahweh who is thought to have designed the reproductive process, could be seen as altering the process to achieve his goal of transferring Jesus from heaven. But consideration of that possibility introduces some additional complexities.
We also now understand the role of genes. Both mother and father contribute genetic information to the newly fertilised egg, thus making the resultant child the off-spring of both parents.
So if Yahweh creates a new 'perfect' set of genes that somehow 'holds' the 'life' of the heavenly Jesus as the 'father's gene set, then can Jesus be fully human? Surely, to be fully human, the human Jesus would require a full set of human genes, thus being in Adam's lineage, which you will recall, is precisely how Luke describes Jesus, as the eventual 'son of Adam, son of God.'
But, doesn't that mean that Jesus bore Adam's genes? So how then can he be perfect, without sin?
What does this mean? For an answer we have to forgo the usual Christian view of the Bible as 'authored' in some mysterious way by God and see it for what it is, the product of human believers who set down this story in fully human terms, that is, they tell the story according to the way they understood that babies were made.
Andrew Lincoln, a scholar at the University of Gloucestershire, argues that the gospel authors would have believed something like this:
Their understanding of conception, shaped by a patriarchal culture, would have been some variation of the dominant Aristotelian theory. On this view, the male semen provides the formative principle for life. The female menstrual blood supplies the matter for the fetus, and the womb the medium for the semen’s nurture. The man’s seed transmits his logos (rational cause) and pneuma (vital heat/animating spirit), for which the woman’s body is the receptacle. In this way the male functions as the active, efficient cause of reproduction, and the female functions as the provider of the matter to which the male seed gives definition. In short, the bodily substance necessary for a human fetus comes from the mother, while the life force originates with the father.
Not very scientific, but an explanation that prevailed for a long time.
From that unrealistic understanding point of view, Jesus could have been fully human - i.e. the bodily substance supplied by Mary, but with Yahweh supplying the lifeforce.
The result - a perfect human, without Adam's genetic structure, because they, the gospel author's, knew nothing about genetics. In fact if Yahweh inspired the gospel authors to write, then he also knew nothing about genetics. But that is also clear in the very first Biblical account.
If you'd like to follow up on this, the Biblical Archeological Review offers this study, from which I have drawn some thoughts:
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Look who's having a heart to heart chat!
by fulltimestudent inrussian president vladimir putin , left , and former us president george w .
bush , right , wearing traditionalchinese silk coats , huddle in.
conversation at the apec leaders ' meeting in shanghai in this oct .
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fulltimestudent
Gregor: fts - Your topic and content is pure, irrelevant drivel.
Oops! Seems like I've upset Gregor.
Let me assure you, Grigor, it was completely unintentional. I had no idea that Geo.W. was your political hero. But let me also point out that aside from the thread title, I, purposefully, made no comment on the topics of the discussion that Geo. W. and Vladimir were obviously having.
When I saw the pik in today's China Daily, my first reaction was to wonder why Geo. W. was there? But, obviously he was part of the official US delegation to the conference (held in Beijing this year). My second reaction was to wish that I was a fly on the wall, as it would be very interesting (in view of the present climate of international suspicion) to know what they were talking about.
My third reaction, was that Geo.W's demeanour was so different, to that promised by the present Australian Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, who (to clearly big-note himself to the Aussie electorate) said that when he next met Putin, he would "shirt-front" him. (Apparently blaming Putin for the intentional shooting down of MH17 - a nonsense claim). It would be an interesting confrontation, Putin is supposed to be good at some sort of asian combat and Abbot claims to be good at boxing., but such a confront ation would do little to make the world a better place.
I denied myself and did not post all that 'drivel' and still got into trouble. (shakes head)
