Posts by fulltimestudent

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

fulltimestudent

Kaik: I love Midrash and I had a borrowed copy, but it was too extensive to read.

Yes! I understand your feelings. But it is interesting to see what this alternative stream of Biblical tradition, thought about the problems raised by the documents that were selected to be canonical.

As you rightly pointed out, the Jewish interpretations were transferred into Christianity via Christian readers of the Midrash in later times.

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Interpretations (targums, midrash and pesher) and authoritativeness

Dunn, whose book (Unity and Diversity in the New Testament) I'm using as a base for my comments, when discussing midrash, refers to the differences between the Sadducees and the Pharisees over the usefulness of tradition (p.66,67). The Pharisees (much as the Catholic church also does), understood that Torah consisted of both written (the Pentateuch) and unwritten (oral) works. The Sadduccees (as, I'm sure most readers already know) only accepted the written Torah as authoritative. Dunn explains why the Pharisees took the above stand. It was because the Pharisees recognised that no written law cover all the exigencies of a changing culture, and therefore the written Torah had to be continually interpreted and supplemented. So if the tradition (probably no longer merely oral, but necessarily written) was regarded as a justifiable interpretation of the written Torah then it became part of the Torah and authoritative. The Sadducees however, could not/would not see it that way.

(Note: Josephus explains his view of the Sadducee/Pharisee argument in his Antiquities XIII.x6 - a web copy can be found at:

http://sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/#aoj )

Those of us who took the JW biblical attitudes seriously will easily see how interpretations can and must change as circumstances and the problems that arise as interpretation impacts on authority.

As an example, the problems associated with the JW version of midrash are well-known in the JW policy on blood. We can ask, did the policy as originally stated, cover all the positions allowable under Bible usage? Likely not. So we saw changes to the original, maybe similar to what may have happened in example of Jewish discussion. If you'd like to see a modern day, non-witness discussion on a related topic on the use of blood, check out this essay:

(Religious perspectives on umbilical cord blood banking

Link: http://www.vifm.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Jordens.pdf )
Even the form of interpretation had to defined. Eventually, interpretation took two forms - Halakah and Haggadah became defined.

Halakah was a specific declaration of God's will in a particular case, a rule of right conduct to guide the inquirer in the way he should go. Over time a considerable case law developed covering the whole of practical life and dealing inclusively with civil, criminal and religious aspects. The Halakah is what the authors of Matthew and Mark refer to as, 'the tradition of the elders,' and was a process well under way before 70 CE. The rules of Halakah were what the gospel writers have Jesus objecting to when he sets the 'tradition of the elders' against the 'commandment of God.'

Haggadah was different. Essentially it was an interpretation designed to edify the hearer/reader, and not necessarily to regulate conduct. It aimed at inducing piety and devotion in its audience.
In any contemporary Christian church we can read or hear similar things, but the witnesses seem to excel, and modern day audiences may find it all very legalistic and controlling.

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

fulltimestudent

The second type of Biblical document we find in early Judaism is called Midrash, these can be called (in simplest terms) an exposition of a Biblical passage that had the goal of explaining the relevance of the sacred text to the present,

The key concern of the writers was to bring out the inner (hidden) meanings they attributed to the text being discussed, over and above the obvious meaning.

The midrash often started discussing a single word, but did more than just explain, the meaning may be extended and implied meanings drawn out with every possible association of ideas.

By the time of Jesus, Jewish scholars had established seven quite complex rules of interpretation. In later times there were 32 rules governing Biblical interpretation,

Again, the importance of Midrash is that we gain an insight into how Jewish believers understood the Bible.

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

fulltimestudent

kaik4 days ago

It is also important to mention FTS, that Jesus supposedly lived in Egypt in his childhood, where he may had obtain some education.

Thnks for raising the Jesus/Egypt connection, kaik.

If, as we once did, accept the OT/NT as absolute truth then we would have no problem with the Jesus/Egypt story. The problem however, is that only Matthew tells that story, and he then proceeds to use the Egypt story as 'proof' that Jesus was the messiah, (Matthew 2:15, where the author of Matthew then quotes Hosea 11:1:

When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.(NIV)

The problem with that quote is, of course, that the author of Hosea is plainly talking about 'Israel' being called out of Egypt, and does not attempt to make any application to a future messiah.

It must be acknowledged by all, that there are clear and obvious connections between Egypt and Israel/Judea. Before Moses the Egyptians ruled the land that became Israel. The Bible does not mention that. I wonder why? Do you think it would spoil the story a bit?

Egypt in the Roman times was home to largest Jewish diaspora numbering about 1 million. Majority of Jews in the 1st century lived outside Judea (about 2/3), and their primary language in Egypt was Greek. Helenization of Jews is certainly factor especially considering Alexandria to be the center of the Jewish intellectual elite until Trajan, far more than Jerusalem.

And, much the same can be said of Babylonian Jews. A significant number of Jews descended from the Jewish elite taken into captivity by Nebuchadnezzar decided not to go back to a ruined Jerusalem. Their descendants still lived in Babylon and other cities when Jerusalem was destroyed again by the Romans and became a significant Jewish intellectual centre also.

26

Look out Boeing and Airbus - you're domination of Aviation may soon be over

by fulltimestudent in

apologies, clumsy fingers again.

but be patient, at some a point a real post may appear..

fulltimestudent

See, Chinese made Airbus 320's, and a nearly complete C919, in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK615HSn18g

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

fulltimestudent

I decided to raise the issue of the 'Hellenisation' of Judaism as a footnote in my above post. As witnesses we were inculcated with the idea that the All-Powerful Yahweh used the Jews to maintain a thread of pure worship on the earth, therefore Jewish thought (and, hence the Bible) could not have been sullied by "pagan' ideas.

So the depth of the Hellenistic influence on the world in which Jesus grew up, is a key issue in assessing the reliability of J.witness scholarship. The more I read, the more convinced I become, that there was a profound change in Jewish (and, hence early Christian) thinking as a result of the influence of Greek ideas.

Here's a long review of Martin Hengel's study on this subject, called:

, The 'Hellenization' of Judaea in the First Century after Christ

Amazon reference: http://www.amazon.com/Hellenization-Judea-First-Century-Christ/dp/1592441874

I'd like to post all of a review from that site, as it explains better than I can, how powerful the pervasive spread of Hellenism may have been upon the Jews of the time. I won't hold my breath waiting for a Watchtower article admitting that Jesus was influenced by Greek thinking, but the evidence points in that direction. Here's the reviewer's comments.

Martin Hengel was a German theologian and historian, specializing in the history of early Christianity. Hengel was critical of the sharp demarcation between "Jewish" and "Hellenistic" often made by historical-critical scholars who study the emergence of Christianity. The usual critical scenario is that Jesus and his earliest followers were very "Jewish". Jesus was essentially a Jewish prophet or wisdom teacher. Later, his message was "Hellenized" by Paul. Real Christianity therefore began with Paul, or perhaps even somewhat later. Hengel, by contrast, believed that all of Palestine was sufficiently "Hellenized" already before the time of Jesus. Therefore, Jesus and the original disciples might very well have been "Hellenized" as well. If so, religious ideas considered more Hellenistic than Jewish might have developed in Palestinian Jewish circles. Perhaps Paul's message wasn't a complete break with the original ideas of the Jesus Movement? Of course, Hengel's idea of a continuity between Jesus, The Twelve and Paul is ultimately an attempt to prove the veracity of the New Testament. In other words, the position is based on a theological agenda. Still, Hengel makes an interesting and even somewhat compelling case, making him well worth reading.
It should be noted that Hengel rejects the term "Hellenization", since in his opinion Jewish and foreign cultures had become so intertwined by the time of Jesus, that there really was no difference between the "Jewish" and the "Greek" in the Jewish culture of Palestine, at least not in the cities, within the educated elite or among the middle classes. The distinction between "Jewish" and "Hellenistic" often made when discussing early Christianity is, in Hengel's opinion, methodologically flawed. "Hellenism" had become an integrated part of Judaism. Of course, another way of saying the same thing, would be to claim that Judaism was so Hellenized that Jesus himself may have been a Hellenized Jew. Indeed, this seems to be Hengel's real point.
As already noted, Hengel believes that Palestinian Judaism was just as Hellenized (or "Hellenized") as Diaspora Judaism. This process, ironically, started with the Maccabees, who despite their militantly Jewish and anti-Greek stance, nevertheless adapted themselves to Greek cultural forms and expressions. The Hasmoneans weren't much different from other Hellenistic monarchs, and they cultivated the legend that Jews and Spartans were actually related peoples (a legend mentioned in 1 Maccabees). The Graeco-Roman and cosmopolitan spirit of Herod the Great is obvious, but was of course combined with promotion of the Jewish religion. That certain elite groups in Palestine were Hellenized is hardly big news, but Hengel believes that this was true of a larger segment of the population as well. Between 10% and 20% of Jerusalem's native population may have been Greek-speaking Jews. The coastal towns were primarily Greek-speaking. In Caesarea, half of the population were Hellenized Jews. In Ashdod and Jamnia, more than half. Archaeological evidence includes synagogue and ossuary inscriptions in Greek.
Even more to the point, Hengel states that Galilee was virtually hemmed in by Gentile towns: Ptolemais, Tyre, Sidon, Caesarea Philippi, Scythopolis and the notorious Gadara. Both Cynics, Pythagoreans and worshippers of Dionysius may have existed in these towns. Galilee itself was Jewish but couldn't escape the influence of Hellenism. Tiberias and the famed Sepphoris probably had a Hellenized Jewish population. The most sensational piece of information is perhaps the claim that the fishing industry at Lake Tiberias may have been owned and operated by Greeks. (Clue: Peter was a fisherman.) An often overlooked fact is that two of Jesus' disciples had purely Greek names: Andrew and Philip. Hengel also believes that Thaddeus and Bartholomew are Aramaized Greek names, as is the name Bartimaeus, the blind beggar cured by Jesus. The names Simon and Shimeon are almost interchangeable. The Gospel of John claims that Andrew, Philip and Simon Peter came from Bethsaida, a village refounded by Herod's son Philip in honour of Augustus' daughter Julia, and therefore a more "Hellenized" and important village than the surrounding ones. From this, Hengel draws the conclusion that Peter may indeed have been bilingual. Another inevitable conclusion is that Jesus got some of his earliest followers from Hellenized Jewish milieus.
Another topic discussed by the author is the class composition of the earliest Palestinian Christians. Hengel regards them as middle class, with some support from wealthy patrons. At one point, he half-jokingly calls the class base of early Christianity "petty bourgeois". He seems to believe that the common people outside the towns were the least Hellenized, and that the Jewish radicals drew their support primarily from this group. The aristocracy and the middle classes, by contrast, were less radical. This presumably explains why the Christians didn't support the Jewish war against Rome, but preferred to abscond. According to a much later tradition, the Christians fled from Jerusalem to Pella, a town inhabited by Gentiles and Hellenized Jews! In this context, Hengel speculates that Jesus himself was middle class. He wasn't a lowly carpenter, but rather a skilled builder.
Another interesting chapter, but also a weaker one, deals with concrete Greek influences on various Jewish writings, including the "Old Testament". The author admits himself that this is a tricky subject, since Greek culture may have been influenced by Persian and Semitic culture at an earlier date. A "Greek" idea found in a Jewish scripture may just as well be indigenous to the Middle East. For some reason, Hengel doesn't discuss the Egyptian dimension. Nor does he want to permit out and out pagan influences on Judaism, i.e. pagan in the religious sense. Perhaps this is too close to home for a theologian? The idea that Christianity was connected to the mystery religions isn't safely buried just yet. Curiously, Hengel nevertheless admits that the story of the wedding at Cana contains Dionysian elements (Jesus turning water into wine), and that Dionysus was indeed worshipped in Scythopolis, only eighteen miles away. Scythopolis was the purported burial place of the god's nurse! As a side point, Hengel points out the remarkable fact that the anti-Greek Essenes nevertheless was the Jewish group most readily interpreted in Greek terms, as a Pythagorean order...
As already noted, the message of "The hellenization of Judea in the first century after Christ" is that typically Christian ideas which are usually pinned on Paul or later writers might as well have started with Jesus and The Twelve. At the same time, the author does allow for a "Judaizing" tendency within the early Church, centred around James, but believes that this was a conservative reaction to the innovations of Jesus and the original disciples, due in part to the harsher and more nationalistic climate of later years.
I don't believe that Martin Hengel has "proven" his position, any more than, say, Bart Ehrman have "proven" his. It's exceedingly difficult to prove or disprove claims about the historical Jesus and his earliest movement. However, this little book (only 100 pages) at least shows that a relatively coherent case can be made for Jesus, The Hellenized Jew.

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

fulltimestudent

Targums (or, Targumim, if you prefer).

A Targum can be defined at the simplest level as a ’Translation’. These ‘translations’ occurred after the Babylonian exile of the Jewish elite and their return to the desolated Jerusalem, as Hebrew was displaced by Aramaic. Hebrew continued to be the language of scholars and used in written works, but at some point Aramaic became the main language of the people, which meant that readings from the ‘Law and the Prophets’ required translation, oral at first, but eventually with written copies being made.

Why are they valuable in Biblical studies? Simply because the Targums were not merely a (literal) translation, but were often a paraphrase or, (if you like) a combined translation and explanation. The original text may be expanded (words added) or even altered so that it could be interpreted differently to the original. Which may give us some ideas about the way that the original text and its 'sacredness' were viewed.

So here we see a ‘living’ understanding, as beliefs underwent re-interpretation. That’s why the targums are valuable in scholarship, through the comments and changes by their authors we sense the development of religious thinking.

For example in the LXX (Greek Septuagint), we may also find alterations to the Hebrew text. And, more famously, there is the Targum of Isaiah 53. Dunn calls it a tendentious translation, deliberately translated to rule out a Christian interpretation.

Mention of the LXX brings up another contentious aspect of first century life. What language were the Jewish people of Palestine using?* Dunn (Unity and Diversity in the New Testament, SCM Press, 2006, p.89) argues that,

“ … By the first century AD Aramaic was probably the only language which many (most?) Palestinean Jews actually spoke.”

Such a view ignores the impact of Hellenic culture on Palestine. After the return from Babylon, Palestine continued to be a Persian province, until Alexander the Great (356-323) conquered the Jews again. (Again, that is, after the Assyrians, the Babylonians and the Persians).** After the death of Alexander Greek or Hellenistic influence became even stronger, from either the Ptolemaic Dynasty which ruled Egypt or the Seleucid Dynasty which ruled Syria. Even the brief period of independence after the Maccabean revolt did not prevent the continued intrusion of Greek language and thought into the lives of the Palestinian Jews. All aspects of their lives were affected – their way of life, business, education and ethos were mediated through Greek culture.

So could Jesus speak Greek? We cannot be sure, but the probable answer is that most Jews may have been bi-lingual. Certainly, the use if the LXX in the NT documents is a good indication of the profound penetration of Greek culture among Palestinian Jews. ***

* A good overview of this issue may be found in this paper:

Which Semitic Language Did Jesus and Other Contemporary Jews Speak?

Link: http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic1202633.files/Lesson%2011/11b%20Fassberg.pdf

** In such a list we glimpse the main religious issue facing Jewish thinkers. They claimed to be the ‘people of the true God,’ and yet they were continually conquered by people who had other Gods. How could this state of affairs, be explained. The answer they came up with could be called “national sins” with a continual need to be saved from their sins by a future leader who would restore their national dignity, and prove beyond doubt that their God was All-powerful.

*** Achtemeier et al, Introducing the New Testament, Its Literature and Theology, Eerdmans, 2001. P.21.

13

Arranged Marriages by Jehovahs Witnesses

by Atlantis in

a reporter did a story on arranged marriages in canada.

lady lee's story is at the top http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/against-their-will/ .

.. .. atlantis!.

fulltimestudent

I suggest that there is some 'journalistic licence,' in the way the author of the article presents this story. The author's 'twist' may sell some more magazines, but does not seem to be based on facts.

Never heard of anything like this in Australia.

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

fulltimestudent

The sub-structure of the NT, as understood by New Testament Scholar, Charles Harold Dodd, is based on,

“ … passages of OT scripture with their application to the gospel facts … it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of Paul, (and) the author of ‘To the Hebrews, and the Fourth Evangelist. It is the substructure of all Christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.” ( C.H.Dodd, According to the Scriptures Nisbet, 1952, p.127).

This is not the perspective adopted by many contemporary Christians who, in practise, often seem ready to discard the OT.

But if this is a correct view, then it becomes important to understand the way that Jewish contemporaries of Jesus and his followers saw and used the OT scriptures.. James Dunn asserts (J.D.G.Dunn, Unity and Diversity in the New Testament, SCM Press, 2006, p.89 ) that the Jewish exegesis of the scriptures by the contemporaries of Jesus is the proper background to early Christianity.

To understand how the contemporaries of Jesus discussed the OT scriptures, we need to think of the categories that were current at that time. Dunn suggests there were five. These are, targum, midrash, pesher, typological and allegorical, but points out that the last three are often controversial.

I propose to discuss these five categories, starting tomorrow with the Targums,

26

Look out Boeing and Airbus - you're domination of Aviation may soon be over

by fulltimestudent in

apologies, clumsy fingers again.

but be patient, at some a point a real post may appear..

fulltimestudent

Previously I posted that, a few weeks ago a Chinese made 99 seat passenger jet ( designated as the ARJ21) had received its airworthiness certification in China.

Today a report from China, indicates that assembly of a larger passenger aircraft, the C919 had commenced last September, (as shown in the image below) and was now almost complete.

The first test flight is scheduled toward the end of 2015.

Zhou Guirong is the deputy chief designer of the C919. comments:

The C919 has been outfitted with the latest in aviation technology.
"In cloudy or smoggy weather, pilots vision of the runway may be obscured. But with the sensors we've installed in the aircraft, pilots will be able to get an infrared view of what's happening outside during takeoff and landing. The C919 is among the first large commercial jets to have the new technology installed."
The C919 can fly up to 5-thousand kilometers, and can accommodate up to 160 passengers.
Zhou Guirong says the new jetliner is also more efficient than a lot of planes currently in the sky.
"Our engine layout reduces fuel consumption by around 15-percent compared with its counterparts, improving its overall operational efficiency by 10-percent. The C919 is very competitive when it comes to safety, economics, comfort and environmental friendliness."

Link:http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0106/c90000-8832082.html

26

Look out Boeing and Airbus - you're domination of Aviation may soon be over

by fulltimestudent in

apologies, clumsy fingers again.

but be patient, at some a point a real post may appear..

fulltimestudent

The huge size of the Chinese market can be gauged by the planned size of China's third airport. The UK Guardian features it in this report:

( Link: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/sep/08/beijing-aviation-hub-mega-airport )

Beijing set to become world's busiest aviation hub with new mega-airport
Proposals for giant third airport could mean 120 million passengers pass through Chinese capital a year

Guardian
Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Friday 9 September 201103.57 AEST
Beijing is moving to overtake London as the world's busiest aviation hub with the construction of a third airport that could have as many as nine runways.
The new mega-project – part of a huge expansion of China's airline industry – has alarmed environmental groups, who warn aircraft will increasingly contribute to the country's already dire pollution problems and high greenhouse gas emissions.
The government has yet to announce details of the project, but the Guardian has spoken to sources familiar with the initial designs and seen signs of construction in the rural district of Daxing, about 31 miles (50km) south-west of the city centre.
On the roadside, labourers are building an elaborate 10m-high steel and concrete map of the world topped by giant red characters declaring: "Construction of a New Airport City for the Capital."
Migrant workers, who live in tents on the site, said they had started work last month on the paving and fountains for the monument.
This follows the inclusion earlier this year of a new capital airport in the government's latest five-year plan.
It was only four years ago that the existing airport in the north of the city opened a huge third terminal ahead of the Beijing Olympics. Designed by the British architect, Norman Foster, it was then the world's biggest airport building, with more floor space than all five Heathrow terminals combined. But it has filled faster than expected due to the rapid growth of China's economy.
Last year, the airport handled 73.9 million passengers. By 2015, this is expected to rise to 90 million – 12 million more than it was designed for.
Beijing authorities have said they will start work this year on land acquisition and demolition for a new airport. In addition to a semi-military airport in Nanyuan, this first phase – due for completion in 2015 – will give the city the capacity to handle 120 million passengers a year. Depending on growth, this would see Beijing overtake London and Tokyo, which each had about 100 million in 2010. Even by Chinese standards, the proposals for the later stages of construction are staggering.

According to the domestic media and sources familiar with the project, the new airport is being designed to ultimately handle between 120 million and 200 million passengers, and have eight civilian runways and perhaps another for the military if Nanyuan is closed. Denver international airport currently has the most runways in the world with six.

A further paragraph notes:

China's aviation industry is already booming. Last year, it reported a profit of 43bn yuan (£3.9bn), triple the figure for the previous year. In the coming 20 years, China is forecast to buy 4,300 new jet aircraft.