Posts by fulltimestudent

52

1914—The Turning Point in History - Really?

by berrygerry in

1914the turning point in history.

30 from the human standpoint, the world troubles and global wars foretold in the bible were far from the thinking of the pre-1914 world.

german statesman konrad adenauer said: thoughts and pictures come to my mind, .

fulltimestudent

Lieu: As for WWI, it may have been a terrible war in modern times, but it isn't the worst war or even the first worldwide war. It was nothing but another war between Europeans.

True, The Jws continually try to paint WW1 as the worst in history, and certainly a terrible time. But as Lieu says, it was essentially a European war, and was only extended to the rest of the world through the imperial colonies held by the protagonists. Even WW2 is misnamed, though it is more deserving of the tag, world wide war, than WW1.

The wikipedia gives a total for deaths as

The total number of military and civilian casualties in World War I was over 38 million: over 17 million deaths and 20 million wounded, ranking it among the deadliest conflicts in human history.

Though some give a higher number.

For sheer bloody butchery though, its hard to go past the mid-nineteenth century civil war that raged for something like a decade within China, as the Christian Taiping attempted to defeat the ruling Qing dynasty. A recent Chinese study places the death toll as fifty seven million.

A Muslim revolt occurred at the same time, and I'm unsure whether the above figure includes the death toll from that war in the southern (Yunnan) and western (Xinjiang and Gansu) provinces. If they are NOT included the death toll must be around 65 million.

4

Galillee, heartland of paganism in Palestine

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

my thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek, because we all know that galilee is where jesus family lived and where he started his ministry.. but, the little village of nazareth, where father joseph started his carpentery business and his sons continued the business, was only about 6km from sepphoris.

its conjectured by some that the family business was not very prosperous, being dependent on rural work when, joseph started it.

nazareth was a typical rural village, houses constructed from mud and brick, with maybe a few constructed from stone.

fulltimestudent

Precious posting: Was this the source of family wealth that allowed Jesus time to read, to wander the country side preaching, and for James to become President of the later Jerusalem Christian congregation and family members to continue in that position after his death? We can only make some assumptions.

Let's have a closer look at the family Jesus belonged to. I'm sure everyone's read Mark 6:3, but just in case anyone has already forgotten the verse, it reads:

Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him. (NIV).

The New Living Translation translates it somewhat differently (not sure about the scholarly basis for their selection of words):

Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him.

But we get the drift, after Jesus got up and preached in the Nazareth Synagogue, everyone was surprised (to say the least). They had known him as a carpenter, and they knew his brothers. And, it's possible that the family accept some of the husbands of the daughters into the business. Likely with all working together in the family business, and with their proximity to Sepphoris, they did well, and they all became prosperous.

We can also wonder about the role that Jesus had in the business? It seems he had a charismatic personality, so maybe he was something like the sales manager in a contemporary business, handy with words and carpentery tools, we see from his parables that he knew, and was on familiar terms with farm owners and managers, the middle class people employed by the wealthy to manage their investments.

In the beginning, outside of Mary, it seems that no-one else in the family believed he had a divine mission and it certainly is not clear when any of his brothers began to believe. But it is also clear that James and Jude did, and according to the church historians Eusebius and Epiphanius, that James and also Simon (Simeon) were the first two 'bishops' of the Jerusalem congregation. There's other evidence that Jude's grandsons played a role in the church during the end of the first century CE, that was back in Galilee, after all Jews were driven out of Jerusalem by the Romans. So in some ways, it seems, the early church was dominated by the family of Jesus.

We ought to be asking what their influence was? To what extent did they influence doctrine? And to what extent were they influenced by Jewish-Hellenistic culture? Some scholarship argues that more than 20% (conservatively) of the population spoke Greek in public. There were even schools in Jerusalem that trained Jewish teachers in Greco-Roman rhetoric. Its also estimated that between 125,000 and 500,000 pilgrims from outside Palestine would visit Jerusalem for the major Jewish festivals. (Refer Acts 2:5-11) Greek was the common language used by nearly all.

3

Holiday time (at least in the southern hemisphere)- Here's a suggestion. Northern Sri Lanka

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

not many years ago, this visit may have been dangerous.

but now that the civil war is over, even if the tamils lost their fight for independence, its safe to visit:.

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/asia/sri-lanka-by-train-the-formerly-war-torn-north-is-rebuilding-a6736001.html.

fulltimestudent

Simon: Why are so many of the interesting places in the world in the middle of war zones?

Easy question. Because, so many of these 'nations' are artificial, in the sense that they were likely comprised of different political entities that were conquered by Imperial military forces and administered by colonial powers who used ethnic suspicions to control two or more different ethnic groups.

But you could think of Europe in the 19th and the first half of the 20th C in a similar way. Almost continual wars.

In the case of Sri Lanka, I suggest its quite safe. And, it is beautiful>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpZI2oGPsio

19

Can you prove that WT policy of shunning is unscriptual? Will soon be discussing with somebody, give me all your ammo!

by EndofMysteries in

will soon be discussing w/ somebody still in about that.

i want to make sure i am not missing anything good.

so any scriptures, articles whether wt articles or secular about effects of shunning, etc, or your arguments against how wt interprets their scriptures, etc.

fulltimestudent

No matter what interpretation you may place on the witnesses favourite texts, that deal with shunning and disfellowshipping, you are still faced with the problem that, at least, some Jewish cults and the newer Christian cults punished 'sinners.' often by isolating them, and on occasion with violence.

3

Holiday time (at least in the southern hemisphere)- Here's a suggestion. Northern Sri Lanka

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

not many years ago, this visit may have been dangerous.

but now that the civil war is over, even if the tamils lost their fight for independence, its safe to visit:.

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/asia/sri-lanka-by-train-the-formerly-war-torn-north-is-rebuilding-a6736001.html.

fulltimestudent

Not many years ago, this visit may have been dangerous. But now that the civil war is over, even if the Tamils lost their fight for independence, its safe to visit:

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/asia/sri-lanka-by-train-the-formerly-war-torn-north-is-rebuilding-a6736001.html

19

Too Much Discontent in the Congregation Part 3

by Simon Templar in

now, 80-85 years later, we are still here.

if i was to do the counsel with a brother who had this much experience, i would have just thanked him for doing the talk, and marked him good on the point.

this is a good way to get money though.

fulltimestudent

LoveUniHateExams: From when I first started studying to when I left, I wasted 15 years of my life in the cult. This is bad enough, but I can't imagine what it would be like wasting 50 years in the cult.

haha - Well, I can tell you. I wasted 42 years, and perhaps would've wasted more, except they disfellowshipped me and that gave me a chance to wake up.

I try not to be angry, what's the point? I did it to myself. I didn't really question anything, accepting that their viewpoint was correct. Can't say it was all bad, and maybe I could not have done the things I now see as desirable. The early 1950's were a lot different to now.

Daily routines in or out the truth are much the same, and yeah! I had some interesting and good friendships - all destroyed of course, by the leadership's megalomania.

The biggest loss, of course, has been financial. Wasted years on useless preaching, putting the YHWH/Jesus combo god first in my life. The problem of divorce and family splitting (emotional blackmail on the part of the megalomaniacal leadership) and the fact that I felt obligated to care for my family by giving them all of what I had accumulated to that point, thus finding myself out on the street with nothing. But by hard work and careful saving, I wont have a deprived old age. Contacts tell me that my foolish ex-wife is having a difficult time. Deluded, she still is 'in' and confident that the end was coming, wasted her money (including my share of what we had) and is now doing it tough..

But how much more sensible now. You can just fade. More and more are doing just that. And, its the best way. They cant stop you, they cant control you. Just refuse to discuss it

And, I now have a reasonably good life since I don't need much, except my study room with too many books that seem to breed in quiet corners, and that teach me that I was once deluded into thinking that the world was coming to an end - grin!

And, I can have an overseas trip once a year to China, where I can watch a billion people who were poor 50 years ago, but have now (by hard work and good leadership) transformed their nation into a much better place, in fact its true to say, that in many cities its approaching a condition that you could call paradise - all without either YHWH or Jesus.

I've often sat on the edge of Xihu (the west lake) with friends. We buy some really beautifully made french style pastries or cakes at a little pattisserie near by and watch the sunset somewhat like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM4VH-TnSkU

My paradise - what more could I ask for?

121

No more printing of WT and Awake in my country.. Shit just got real

by cognitivedizzy in

jw
friends

guys .

a letter was just read in out kh stating that all printing of wt and awake is ceased for the coming year and we will just place tracts on fs, countries which were cared by our branch will be cared by other countries...along with this they read the new fs form and stuff about reporting links of videos wtf..lol.

i can't tell which country perhaps that will give away a lot, any one with a similar information.

fulltimestudent

Vidiot: I don't think it ever occurred to the XJW community that the potential loss of tax-exempt status could actually cause serious problems for the Org...
---------------------
...but the more you think about it, the harder it is to argue that their entire "business model" (as done4good put it) is very tightly adapted to said status.

Haha- so much for divine wisdom guiding the Jovial witnesses. (or, any other brand of Christianity)

4

Galillee, heartland of paganism in Palestine

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

my thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek, because we all know that galilee is where jesus family lived and where he started his ministry.. but, the little village of nazareth, where father joseph started his carpentery business and his sons continued the business, was only about 6km from sepphoris.

its conjectured by some that the family business was not very prosperous, being dependent on rural work when, joseph started it.

nazareth was a typical rural village, houses constructed from mud and brick, with maybe a few constructed from stone.

fulltimestudent

If it looks like a Duck, Is it a Clue to the Rise of Jewish Galilee?

The duck-headed handle of a Hellenistic-era incense shovel found at Khirbet el-Eika in the eastern Galilee in 2015. (Courtesy: Uzi Leibner, Hebrew University; Tal Rogovski)

A Hebrew University team led by Dr. Uzi Leibner discovered the shovel amid the ruins of Khirbet el-Eika, a site just west of the Sea of Galilee near the Horns of Hattin, during August’s excavations. Leibner sought to elucidate who the inhabitants of the Galilee were in the early Second Temple period.

The hills of the Galilee were densely populated with Jewish villages during the late Second Temple period and thereafter. The historical Jesus was born in the small Galilean town of Nazareth a little more than 2,000 years ago. The gospels and contemporary historical texts describe a region populated by Jews who rose up against the Roman Empire en masse in 66 CE. In the centuries thereafter it was the heartland of rabbinic scholarship, literature and Jewish life in Roman Palestine.

But the Galilee apparently wasn’t always that way. Current research indicates the area was settled by non-Jewish peoples when the region was ruled by the Persian and Greek empires between the fifth and third centuries. Only at the very end of the Hellenistic period, with the rise of the Hasmonean dynasty of Maccabee fame, did it come under Jewish rule.

Except for later historical accounts and limited archaeological surveys at sites skirting the Galilee, little is known about the region during the Hellenistic period. How and when the Galilee became a Jewish stronghold in the late Second Temple period has been the topic of scholarly debate for centuries.

Full story at:http://www.timesofisrael.com/if-it-looks-like-a-duck-quacks-like-a-duck-is-it-a-clue-to-the-rise-of-jewish-galilee/

71

Which bible character do you hate the most?

by Bonsai in

the more i think about it, the more i feel an extreme dislike for the apostle paul.

he was on par with hitler in his treatment of the jews before he "saw the light".

he replaced jesus teachings of love and mercy with a more legalistic, pharisaical concept of devotion to god.. any evil person can come to believe in god and worship him if the scales were literally and miraculously removed from his eyes.

fulltimestudent

Bonsai: The more i think about it, the more I feel an extreme dislike for the apostle Paul. ... What irritates me even more is the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses were more Paulian than CHRISTian.

Go a little bit further down this track, Bonsai, and you will realise that there was no such thing as a SINGLE TRUE CHURCH started by Jesus and perverted by men like Paul.

Just as there were many Judaisms in Jesus time, so there were many Christianities after Jesus.

4

Galillee, heartland of paganism in Palestine

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

my thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek, because we all know that galilee is where jesus family lived and where he started his ministry.. but, the little village of nazareth, where father joseph started his carpentery business and his sons continued the business, was only about 6km from sepphoris.

its conjectured by some that the family business was not very prosperous, being dependent on rural work when, joseph started it.

nazareth was a typical rural village, houses constructed from mud and brick, with maybe a few constructed from stone.

fulltimestudent

My thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek, because we all know that Galilee is where Jesus family lived and where he started his ministry.

But, the little village of Nazareth, where father Joseph started his carpentery business and his sons continued the business, was only about 6km from Sepphoris. Its conjectured by some that the family business was not very prosperous, being dependent on rural work when, Joseph started it. Nazareth was a typical rural village, houses constructed from mud and brick, with maybe a few constructed from stone. Carpenters would have been employed to provide the wooden beams for the roof and perhaps the doors. Some may have some furniture made from wood - a table, some stools. Other than that work the only other local work would likely have been wooden yokes and ploughs required by peasant farmers.

But Sepphoris, an hour and bit walk away, was different. If Nazareth had limited business opportunities, Sepphoris was paradise. AIt had been burned by the Romans in retribution for rebellions that broke out after the death of Herod the Great about 4 BCE, But Herod's successor, Herod Antipas chose the city as his capital and started a building boom.

No paved roads in Nazareth, but in Sepphoris roads were paved with slabs of stone. Most houses were two stories, offering many opportunities for hardworking artisans in this city of some 40,000 inhabitants. At the top of the tree were Roman villas, that required floor mosaics and wall paintings of naked nubile girls and boys, maybe with the wall painting framed with ornate timber frames made by the most skilled wood workers.

Was this the source of family wealth that allowed Jesus time to read, to wander the country side preaching, and for James to become President of the later Jerusalem Christian congregation and family members to continue in that position after his death? We can only make some assumptions.

But we can say something else about Sepphoris. In the poor village of Nazareth, the peasant families were likely conservative, In wealthy Sepphoris there was a different class. If they were ethnic Jews, they would likely be cosmopolitan, wealthy, deeply influenced by Greek and Roman culture and life-style.

It is not an exaggeration to argue that Sepphoris became the centre of Hellenism in Palestine, Greek thought competed with a number of Jewish sects and even influenced them, so it is often to understand what may have been Jewish in origin and what was pagan.