fulltimestudent

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Posts by fulltimestudent

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  16

  Proof that the lingiusts are lying about words used in the bible IE: Shaddai, Angels, Elohim, Yhwh?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in 1967 an archeologist found at tell el-deir alla an inscription that they called the book of balaam son of beor.

  this looks to be about the same balaam that's talked about in the bible book of numbers.

  remember the guy where his donkey is talking to him.

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  fulltimestudent

  Diogenesister :
  Crazyguy may I ask what you study please? And you also full-time student?

  Sure! I've been taking a B.Arts (major in Ancient History) at Sydney's Macquarie Uni. I (mainly) wanted to learn more about China, as I thought the major events of the 19th and 20th centuries were the 19th C. collapse of the Qing (Manchu) Empire and the 20th C. re-organisation of China, but I soon saw that one could not study China in isolation, but that you had to see China in its Asian context..

  Macquarie does not have a very strong Asian Studies program (it was not my first choice of a uni, but my first choice did not offer me a place) MU turned out to be good though, as its has a really good Ancient History Department that has some good study Units on west Asia and the Silk Road trade complex, as well as Chinese Ancient History. There's also a good Society for the study of Early Christianity (and a nascent society for the study of Asian Historical Research, the web page for which, I've become editor.

  So in the end, (with a little twisting - I found a way to be able to take study units at Sydney Uni, which is in the process of building a world class China Studies Centre - it already has 200 academics associated) I've been able to cover some wonderful areas of human history. I was going to graduate at the end of last year ( I needed 68 credit points to graduate and have near 80) but the Uni management informed me that I've not covered 2 general units that they consider essential - so I have to cover them this year.

  For anyone living in Australia, I recommend attending a Uni. Under the deferred cost scheme it does not cost you much except time, and you only start to pay off the cost when your income reaches around $50,000.

  --------

  Diogenesister : I also read somewhere that yahweh maybe Baal, the son of el, and the host of heaven referring to the many gods of heaven...not as in god and his angels. Does anyone have anymore info..I will definitely look into the book full-time student mentions.

  Its the contention of a lot of scholars that in early Hebrew theology, Baal transformed into YHWH. Boyarin, whose commentary on Dan 7 (See his 'The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Gospels,' pp 43-52 for a brief review ) I've mentioned before believes it to have influenced the acceptance by some Jews, of the divinity of Jesus.

  The thought that the ancient secondary Gods were transformed into angels in later theology is quite commonly accepted. The idea is often referred to as angelology.

  
  
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  A Very Buddhist Chrissie Cartoon

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  fulltimestudent

  

  It's astrotheological: Mithra welcomes in the New Age displacing Taurus (wiki).

  Which the site claims is a sort of pre-Christian Xmas, which doesn't sound quite right to me, but what the hell, is xmas, so let's be forgiving.

  From a page on a site called- ( http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/pre-christian-xmas-in-aryan-iran-audio.html )
  

  WISDOM QUARTERLY: AMERICAN BUDDHIST JOURNAL

  
  
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  16

  Proof that the lingiusts are lying about words used in the bible IE: Shaddai, Angels, Elohim, Yhwh?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in 1967 an archeologist found at tell el-deir alla an inscription that they called the book of balaam son of beor.

  this looks to be about the same balaam that's talked about in the bible book of numbers.

  remember the guy where his donkey is talking to him.

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  fulltimestudent

  Crazyguy : Another word that the meaning may have been changed and i should have added to my original post is the word Amen. The word is also a name for an Egyptian god , sometimes spelled that way sometimes spelled Amun.

  That notion has also been around a while. But its dangerous to associate ideas because of some similarity in the word. There's only a certain amount of sounds that humans can produce, so sounds (and, combinations of sounds) will have different meanings in different languages
  

  I've got a lot to get through today, so I'll just use Wikipedia as a reference (as its easily accessible, in spite of some associated problems).

  On the topic of Amun, the author of that topic notes: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun )

  The name Amun (written imn, pronounced Amana in ancient Egyptian [5]) meant something like "the hidden one" or "invisible".[6] It was thought that Amun created himself and then his surroundings.[7]

  
  

  Wikipedia in the entry for the word 'Amen,' says:

  Etymology

  Grammarians frequently list ʾāmán under its three consonants (aleph-mem-nun), which are identical to those of ʾāmēn (note that the Hebrew letter א aleph represents a glottal stop sound, which functions as a consonant in the morphology of hebrew).[9] This triliteralroot means to be firm, confirmed, reliable, faithful, have faith, believe.

  The usage of Amen, meaning "so be it", as found in the early scriptures of the Bible is said to be of Hebrew origin;[6][7] however, the basic triconsonantal root from which the word was derived is common to a number of languages, such as Aramaic, in the Semitic branch of the Afrasian languages. The word was imported into the Greek of the early Church from Judaism.[1][8] From Greek, amen entered the other Western languages. ...

  In Arabic, the word is derived from its triliteral common root word ʾĀmana (Arabic: آمن‎), which has the same meanings as the Hebrew root word.

  Popular among some theosophists,[11] proponents of Afrocentric theories of history,[12] and adherents of esoteric Christianity [13][14] is the conjecture that amen is a derivative of the name of the Egyptian god Amun (which is sometimes also spelled Amen). Some adherents of Eastern religions believe thatamen shares roots with the Hindu Sanskrit word, Aum.[15][16][17][18] Such external etymologies are not included in standard etymological reference works. The Hebrew word, as noted above, starts with aleph, while the Egyptian name begins with a yodh.[19]

  
  

  ---------------------------

  Crazyguy :
  This understanding goes hand in hand with what was found at Ugarit, that El was the most high god, created offspring other gods some of which resided on the mountains. These gods were referred to as Elohim and when we see the word angels in the old testament this is also incorrect these are in fact also the gods, not lowly flying messengers with wings. Then last but not least YHWH the sign we have always been told was a symbol for the name of the one true god could be in fact stand for a, family of Gods.

  I think its easiest to say that there are different interpretations as to how YHWH came to occuppy the chief place in the thinking of the early Hebrews.

  What is clear however, is that those early Hebrews (whoever they may have been ethnically) did not see the unseen (and imagined ) heavens, the way modern Jews do.

  The evidence points to many gods in their belief system. You may enjoy (if you can access a library that has a copy) Page DuBois' book, "A Million and One Gods: The Persistence of Polytheism" (published by Harvard University Press in 2014.) Its not a long book and covers more than just the biblical area.

  And thanks for publishing the Book of Balaam.
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  A Very Buddhist Chrissie Cartoon

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  fulltimestudent

  
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  21

  Where the real abuse lies.

  by ctrwtf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let me start with a disclaimer: i am in no way minimizing the horrific crimes done to children by pedophiles.

  i'm not downplaying the number of lives lost due to the blood issue, or hearts broken because of shunning.

  i do not want to discount the feelings of those who have come to the end of their lives with expectations of paradise postponed.. but to me the biggest atrocity committed by this awful cult is raising children from a small age to believe that soon god will kill billions of people.

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  fulltimestudent

  The issue of preservation or destruction is older than Christianity, but since we are talking about people claiming to be Christians (of any brand) its good to remember that this is a topic that Jesus personally propagated.

  Explicitly in Matthew 25:41. And implicitly in Matthew 24:9-22 and Revelation 19:17-21.

  I could quote a heap more texts, except that I'm tired of quoting the poor deluded bugger, who is really responsible for all the problems alluded to in the past few posts. It all starts with Jesus.
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  21

  Where the real abuse lies.

  by ctrwtf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let me start with a disclaimer: i am in no way minimizing the horrific crimes done to children by pedophiles.

  i'm not downplaying the number of lives lost due to the blood issue, or hearts broken because of shunning.

  i do not want to discount the feelings of those who have come to the end of their lives with expectations of paradise postponed.. but to me the biggest atrocity committed by this awful cult is raising children from a small age to believe that soon god will kill billions of people.

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  fulltimestudent

  But we all 'accepted' this organisation at some point in our lives and in some way submitted to its rulings.

  Why?

  For my part it was because I believed the biblical promises that they focused on.

  Was it a terrible experience? (As it is in some cults, where there is a culture of bullying) Was it all bad? I can't argue that it was for me.The Congregation Servant (this is back in the fifties) in the first congregation I was associated with was one of the most gentle men you could meet, with a deep personal interest in the well-being of all in the congregation. In another congregation in which I pioneered in Victoria, the sisters in the congregation spontaneously organised themselves to provide a hot meal each day for an elderly brother.

  Its true that Australia may have a different culture generally, and perhaps in the JW congregations of that country. It maybe that different nations see other nations in different ways. Most Australian witnesses that I knew thought that American witnesses were very materialistic, and that European witnesses were too free with alcohol (sorry if I'm treading on some toes). And, I heard that at Gilead, the Australian experience in WW2 was help up as an example of how rebellion may develop at the end of the 1000 years. The line of reasoning may have been that Aussies were too relaxed and couldn't see what was really rebellious.

  Those who stay (including my own kids), and are living in the western world, where there is an emphasis on personal freedom and individual choice, must find something attractive in witness life. I 'believed' like any Christian must believe, and assisted my kids to believe by choice. Did I brainwash them? That depends how you define 'brainwash.' I believed that raising questions and providing answers was the way to teach. That's the meaning of the word 'catechism,' - a summary of the principles of Christian religion in the form of questions and answers, used for religious instruction. And the Catholic church (a highly structured organisation) like the witnesses, still uses a catechism, to instruct children and converts.

  I decided not to be confrontational with my own kids (who were adults anyway). They want to stay in that organisation. What right do I have to be confrontational? They all seem to be OK people, with successful lives ( among the three marriages - one partner has undertaken tertiary studies, and another is involved in teaching dancing as a hobby). Some argue that they are wasting their lives. Maybe so! But some people say to me, why do you want to waste your life going to university and studying for exams, why don't you relax and go fishing, like me? The answer is because I want to (and anyway I hate fishing - the existential struggle of the fish upsets me). I see no reason to struggle against my kids, even though Christianity has placed a barrier between us.
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  13

  Organization, not a concept established by God

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was dwelling over a discussion going on at jw-archive.

  the old topic of the legitimacy of the gb and the concept of centralized organization.

  despite what the wt claims, there are a number of examples in the new testament of actions and decisions taken without direction or even the awareness of the elders in jerusalem.. despite whatever other evidence jw may have about the organizational tendencies of god (namely the creation, universe, whatever else they usually bring up), the concept of an organized nation never originated from god.

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  fulltimestudent

  Beth Sarim : There's nothing in the Bible about Organized Religion.

  Are you sure?

  What name would you give to the highly organised arrangements for worship in the first and second temples described in different parts of the Bible? Surely that was highly organised worship.

  Actually, most early religion revolved around worship in a temple, with priests and sacrifices. The Jewish way was not unique.

  A philosophical content seems to have arrived at a later stage. Karl Jaspers, a German philosopher, called that stage of human development, 'the Axial Age' locating it between the 8th and 3rd centuries BCE (700s to 200s BCE). In West Asia, the Greek Pre-socratic philosphers, in Central Asia, Zoroastrian thought, In India early 'Hindu' thought and Buddhism, and in East Asia (China) Confucianism, Moism (Universal Love) and Daoism were all part of the era.

  
  

  The changes in thinking led to the inclusion of 'thought systems' into religion.

  What I've written is a very simplistic description of tremendous changes in the way that humans viewed the world.
  

  
  
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  9

  Jesus 40 day fast, what really happened?

  by Formerbrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2016/questions-from-readers/.

  did satan physically take jesus to the temple when tempting him?.

  put simply, we cannot be certain whether jesus actually stood in the temple or he did so only by means of a vision.

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  fulltimestudent

  Jesus suffered from delusions.

  As he grew up he gradually came to imagine that he was going to fulfill a special role for the people that he saw as 'God's people.' But to do that he needed to demonstrate his legitimacy. I submit that through his claimed supernatural experiences he could ask his disciples and his audiences to accept the role that he claimed for himself

  Whether he described that 40 days to his disciples or not is unclear. According to Luke's narrative, no one else accompanied him during the claimed 40 day fast. The whole experience may have been in his fevered imagination, that he related at some future point. If not so, then the authors of the gospels made it up for the same reasons.

  It is very difficult for people living now to understand the thought patterns of people living in world of that time. The sociohistorical realities that shape the way that social groups (communities) see the world are often just assumed when people speak or write. If we think in terms or of our own sociohistorical realities then we will often get an entirely wrong impression.
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  2

  The Influence of Hellenism on Early Christianity: Dionysus as a Template for the Jesus Gospels

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the influence of hellenism on early christianity: dionysus as a pattern for the mythical aspects of jesus..

  the palestine in which the young jesus grew up was strongly influenced by hellenic mythology.

  for some 600 years the jews had been subjects of first the persian empire and then the empires of alexander the great, his hellenic successors (the ptolemies and the xxxx), and eventually the romans.

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  fulltimestudent

  Sorry, about the XXXX on the third line. It was meant to remind me to check the spelling of 'Seleucids' who were the other Hellenic empire that ruled Palestine and the Jews in the post-Alexander centuries.

  When I'm writing from memory, I occasionally get a mental question on spelling.

  There was some problem in posting, and I did not get back to the final edit.

  ............................

  • dothemath: Fascinating to see so many similarities. I've read how many think John's gospel was influenced by Greek philosophy ( regarding the "word" ) from the first chapter.

    
    

    There seems little doubt that John's first chapter had a strong dose of Hellenism in it. Of course, another way to see the chapter is that the author was using Hellenistic thought to explain the role of Jesus as he saw it.

    And, yet another perspective, is that the 'culture' of the Palestinian area was part of a more general west Asian culture that had local pockets influenced by their own ethnic cultures.

    
    

    The so-called 'Pre-socratic' philosophers that are generally seen as beginning Greek thought (philosophy) were clustered along the western coast of Asia Minor (now Turkey). On land and the coastal seas there was a lot of traffic from trade between that area and Egypt/North Africa, so its arguable that long before Alexander conquered the Persian Empire, Greek culture was influencing the coastal peoples. Alexander's policy, and that of his successors, of settling retired Greek soldiers (married to local women) into colonies all through these lands, saturated them with Hellenistic thought and concepts.

    
    

    On the topic of logos, you may find this Oregon State U, website informative:

    http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~funkk/Personal/logos.html
    

    
    

    
    

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  Living in India - life as a runaway kid

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from the hongkong based, south china morning post:.

  http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1892363/indias-runaways-and-charities-saving-them-abuse?utm_source=edm&utm_medium=edm&utm_content=20151220&utm_campaign=scmp_today#.

  these kids were lucky, a ngo group saw them first.

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  fulltimestudent

  From the Hongkong based, South China Morning Post:

  http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1892363/indias-runaways-and-charities-saving-them-abuse?utm_source=edm&utm_medium=edm&utm_content=20151220&utm_campaign=scmp_today#

  These kids were lucky, a NGO group saw them first. Their stories are in the above overview.

  

  The Indian National Crime Records Bureau states that over 65,000 boys go missing from home every year, only about 40,000 are ever traced. (I think that's conservative, if - as some estimate- over 70% of Indians are still living in poverty, then the likelihood of every missing boy being reported to any authority is small)