Posts by fulltimestudent

The first post defined the rule that Jews were expected to obey, that is to excrete waste material from their bodies 'outside the camp.' I could not resist repeating, Dr Robert Cargill's point in his blog, that the reason the Israelites had to do that, was to avoid offending YHWH in case he saw their sh*t. But that was not the point I wanted to make.

As witnesses, it was drummed into us that, the hygiene sections of the law were there to protect the health of YHWH's worshippers. But, as you will see, his laws as demonstrated at Qumran actually made them sick.

Because of the importance of the Dead Sea Scrolls in understanding both early Judaism and early Christianity, all kinds of academic disciplines have taken an interest in the site. This report from the academic journal Nature, covers the research into the sects toilet habits.

Toilet excavation could link site to Dead Sea Scrolls.
Katharine Sanderson

The ancient site was riddled with roundworm eggs - a sign that it was used as a toilet.J. Zias
An ancient Jewish sect showed such devotion to their definition of purity that they pursued bizarre toilet habits that left them riddled with parasites, say researchers who have discovered and dug up their toilet.
The discovery, made at Qumran, near Jerusalem, could provide more proof linking the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Essene people who lived in the area, the researchers claim.
The scrolls — the oldest biblical documents ever found — were thought to have been made by the Essenes around 100 years BC. Joe Zias, a palaeopathologist at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem dug around Qumran where he thought their toilet should be, and took soil samples to try and prove the connection once and for all.
The scrolls describe strict rules for where the Essenes were allowed to defecate: far enough away from the camp not to be visible, sometimes as much as 3,000 cubits (1.4 kilometres) away in a northwesterly direction. They had to bury their faeces and perform a ritual all-over wash in the local waters afterwards.
At Qumran, following such instructions would take the Essene men to a nicely secluded spot behind a mound. And as Zias and his colleagues report in the current edition of Revue de Qumran1, the soil there bears the hallmarks of a latrine — and one not used by the healthiest of people.
Dirty bath water
Dead eggs from intestinal parasites, including roundworm (Ascaris), whipworm (Trichuris), tapeworm (Taenia) and pinworm (Enterobius vermicularis), were preserved in the soil. "If you look at a latrine from the past you will always find these parasites," comments Piers Mitchell, a medical practitioner and archaeologist at Imperial College London, UK.
It seems a pretty ordinary picture of ancient ill health, says Mike Turner, a parasitologist at the University of Glasgow, UK. He describes the pinworm rather aptly as "common as muck", adding that to use its presence to argue that the Essenes wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls is "an interesting bit of lateral thinking", he says.
The Qumran site was home to the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls, claim researchers.J. Zias
But Zias is certain that the toilet was used by the scrolls' authors. He was already convinced that the Essenes lived at Qumran from previous studies of the local graveyard, which contains remains of almost exclusively men, which fits with the fact that the Essenes were a monastic sect.
What's more, the men buried there had an average age at death of 34, making them a sickly bunch. But it wasn't the toilet parasites that finished them off, Zias suggests, but their ritual of post-poo bathing in a stagnant pool.
Geography worked against the Essenes because the pool in which they cleansed themselves was filled with run-off collected during the winter months. "Had they been living in Jericho 14 kilometres to the north, where one finds fresh spring water, or in other sites whereby one has an oasis, they would have lived quite well," Zias says.
The location of the latrine at Qumran conforms with the directions laid down in the Dead Sea Scrolls, proving that the Essene lived there, Zias claims. Sanitation around the time of the Essenes was good, and ordinary people were unlikely to go so far out of the city to defecate.
If his theory is correct, it might therefore carry a lesson about religious fundamentalism, Zias adds. "It shows what happens when people take biblical things too fundamentally or literally, as they do in many parts of the world, and what the ultimate consequences are."

“It shows what happens when people take biblical things too literally.”

Reference: http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061113/full/news061113-5.html

So, briefly, because of their toilet habits, the soil in the selected area became grossly infected with round worm eggs and walking barefoot or touching the soil with bare hands (how else do you dig but with a hand held implement) led to more and more infections. Piling sh*t on sh*t as it were, the water in which they washed was not running water, and it also became contaminated with worm eggs etc.

You likely noted from the above article that the skeletal remains at the site all seem to be of a younger age, indicating that the continual infections made them sicker and sicker.

That's the price of blind obedience.

47

Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?

by TTWSYF in

with some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?

some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.

fulltimestudent

Anyone trying to come to grips with the origin and development of what we mean when we speak of 'Christianity' may find Geza Vermes' book,'Christian Beginnings: From Nazareth to Nicaea, AD 30-325,' helpful.

Vermes was of Jewish stock, who became a RC priest when young, but left the church to marry. He became Reader in Jewish studies at Oxford in 1965 and then full Professor in 1989. When he died, the UK Guardian described him as, "one of the world's leading authorities on the origins of Christianity*." He was also one of the leading scholars in the field of Dead Sea Scrolls studies.** His 1998 publication, 'The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English,' ( which does not include fragments or Biblical texts) is often used as a text book in university courses dealing with the DDS. In Christian Beginnings, Vermes' attempts to sketch the historical continuity between the charismatic Jesus preaching in Galilee and the first ecumenical council (Nicaea, 325CE). His view of Jesus, described in his 1973 book, 'Jesus the Jew,' that Jesus never deviated from his Jewish beliefs is now commonly accepted in scholarship. However, we should note that Judaism over the centuries was not the homogeneous, monolithic religion described in watchtower (and others) literature. There was never 'one truth faith' starting with Noah, and developing through Abraham and Moses etc.

If you can grasp his picture of developing Judaism, I suggest you will have a much better understanding of the origins of Christianity, which continues to have both formal and charismatic forms, as did the Judaism of the first century CE.

The formal form of Judaism centred on the Temple and the Torah. The first temple worship seems to have been in the mobile tent/sanctuary described in the Pentateuch, but after settlement in Canaan there were a number of small temple/sanctuaries across Palestine that were eventually closed and formal worship confined to the Jerusalem temple/sanctuary that was destroyed finally by the Romans who made Jerusalem a gentile/pagan city.

The Torah likewise evolved over the centuries as a set of teachings describing the Jewish way of life. The conduct of that worship and its instruction (and enforcement-sanctions) was in the hands of a hereditary priesthood, first from the family of Levi, and once worship was focussed on the Jerusalem temple, the privileged family of Aaron. But there could be challenges to the establishment, High priest Onias IV, after the murder of his father, high priest Onias III, in 171 BCE set up a competing temple/sanctuary in Leontopolis (in the Nile Delta) that lasted until it too was destroyed by the Romans in 73/74 CE. There was also another Jewish temple in Egypt on a Nile river island at Elephantine.

Another schism occurred when the Maccabees took over formal Judaism in 152 BCE. Vermes suggests that the Essenes (likely the same sect as those at Qumran) were opposed to the Maccabees (in some way) and forsook worship at Jerusalem, and saw themselves as worshipping in a 'spiritual temple' by means of prayer and holy living. (You can read all their prescriptions for 'true worship' in the Dead Sea Scrolls documents usually known as: The Community Rules, The Damascus Document, the War Scroll, and the Temple Scroll, in particular.)

In those forms of worship, authority was derived from legal codes and standardised worship and offices. (And as we see in JW worship and most other churches by appointment to office from the central authority).

But there's another way to gain authority, one that was highlighted by Max Weber, the famous German sociologist. He focussed attention on what he called, the 'charismatic hero/leader.' This authority figure doesn't inherit power, neither is he appointed to power. The charismatic hero/leader gains and maintains his (and sometimes a 'her.') by proving his strength in life. If he wants to be a political leader, he must defeat his enemies, but if he wants to be a 'prophet,' then he must prove himself through his prophetic insights and miracles. So we see in parallel to formal Judaism another form, with Moses as a prototype and continuing through time with the prophets and Vermes argues, with Jesus, and the others in his time that preached throughout Palestine.

There is no text in which Jesus commanded his followers to leave Judaism and start a new church. After his death, his followers continued to meet and worship as Jews, believing that the fulfillment of prophecies (such as Daniel) was imminent, and that the Jewish god would restore Israel to its divinely appointed power.

The separation of the "Christian" organisation from Judaism commenced slowly from the mid first century CE, when those hopes failed to materialise.

The destruction of formal Judaism in 70 CE was a catostrophic event in connection with the messianic expectations.

It is also useful to appreciate that although modern readers attempt to project their contemporary experience back to the first century, most scholarship is agreed that there was not one, but many forms of early Christianity. It took near to 300 years for one form to claim formal control, but it always faced competition, for example, the eastern church lying within the Iranian/Sasanian empire was not controlled by the Roman church based then in Constantinople. Most Christians in those days were located in Asia, not Europe. An example is the Ebionites and the Elchasaites, from them sprang the Prophet Mani, whose form of Christianity swept across Asia to China. (the last known Manichean temple in the world is located in the Chinese coastal city of Quanzhou).

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* http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/may/14/geza-vermes

** http://www.oxfordbiblicalstudies.com/article/opr/t94/e497 for an overview

8

Obeying YHWH can make you sick

by fulltimestudent in

we were once told and re-told that obedience to yhwh and his side-kick would save our lives..

so how about this bit of real-life research that's currently emerging in academic circles?.

there were strict rules in the law code about how and where you could sh*t..

fulltimestudent

We were once told and re-told that obedience to YHWH and his side-kick would save our lives.

So how about this bit of real-life research that's currently emerging in academic circles?

There were strict rules in the law code about how and where you could sh*t.

Now one of those commandments is inscribed at Deuteronomy 23:14-15

Just why is explained in the associated verses, and discussed by Dr Robert Cargill on his blog.

( http://robertcargill.com/2013/05/02/still-one-of-the-oddest-biblical-commands-cover-your-poo-because-god-might-step-in-it/ )

Interestingly, of the above reasons given in support of the command to the Israelites to cover their poo, it is the latter (not wanting to step in it) and not the former (hygiene) that is given as the theological reason for burying one’s foul:

Deut. 23:12 You shall have a designated area outside the camp to which you shall go.
Deut. 23:13 As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement.
Deut. 23:14 For the LORD your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you.

God steps in poo. This must be avoided.

You read that correctly. God WALKS IN THE MIDST OF YOUR CAMP (Hebrew: מִתְהַלֵּךְ בְקֶרֶב מַחֲנֶךָ = “paces/walks in the midst of your camp”), and you don’t want God to step in it! In fact, God doesn’t even want to see (Hebrew: ראה) anything indecent (Hebrew: עֶרְוַת דָּבָר = “any naked thing”).

God stepping in your poo. This must be prevented

This is the reason given for why Israelites must go outside of the camp to go, and then cover their poo: because God walks around the camp and they don’t want God to step in their poo, and if he even sees it, he’ll “turn away” from the camp (as it stinks and is no longer “holy”), and will stop protecting/delivering them and will stop handing their enemies over to them in battle.

Apparently, if you want God in the midst of your camp, he can’t be in the midst of your crap.

So in the end, the rationale for covering one’s poo is not hygienic, nor is it public health, but rather the Israelites are to cover their poo so that God doesn’t step in it or see it,because if he does, he’ll leave them and they’ll start losing battles.

http://robertcargill.com/2013/05/02/still-one-of-the-oddest-biblical-commands-cover-your-poo-because-god-might-step-in-it/

Now it so happens (and maybe you never thought that we could find some ancient Jewish crap) that we can still find a place where faithful and obedient Jews did precisely what the Law code commanded.

The Jews who lived at Qmran (quite possibly they belonged to the Essenes sect) were noted for their strict adherence to the Mosaic law. These are the people associated with the dead sea scrolls, and their Qumran ‘camp’ has been the focus of a huge archaeological search for more information.

In the next post, we can find out what happened when these faithful Jews obeyed the law, 'shat' outside the camp, and made it possible for YHWH to walk around their camp without getting poo on his sandals.

13

What are the new songs that people are talking about?

by dogon in

i have heard that there are some or at least one new song that is way out there.

what number is it or a link to it on youtube.

thanks.

fulltimestudent

The future ....

https://www.facebook.com/hoangduyn/videos/935634886511413/?theater

2

The Truth about Charles Taze Russell - Raymond Franz

by Brokeback Watchtower in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zo_cyho90y

fulltimestudent

Finkelstein: Ray tells it well when he describes Russell as someone who grew more engaged and endeared to his own public notoriety as a preaching Pastor, which of course grew even larger as he gave public talks and sold and distributed his own publications

True enough, but isn't that the process by which most religions were started.

In early Israel, a charismatic prophet preached his mix of doom/reward motivations in his message, and engaged with the like minded in his audience. Someone wrote down what he said and did, and distributed it (albeit in a limited way), and bingo! centuries later some fools think that it tells you something important about life.

And specifically, the charismatic Jesus, convinced (possibly by his mother) that he was the promised messiah did something similar. Charlie (Russel) along with others who formulated the American style of Christianity just followed in that well-worn path.

73

The Left And Islam

by Bangalore in

the left and islam.

.

fulltimestudent

"Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. - Jesus as quoted at Matthew 12:25

One doesn't need to be inspired by heavenly wisdom to understand the common-sense behind the above statement, although it is an idea that has limitations as understood in the reality that modern (western) notions of government depend on recognising the implicit division that may exist between conservative and the so-called progressive positions on many issues.

But as we examine the fundamental division that exists between the Shi-ite and Sunni sects of Islam that complicates modern Islam we note that its is almost impossible to visualise a political and religious settlement between the two groups

They have (generally) a vicious hate for each other and are prepared to kill in much the same way that Catholics and Protestants could kill each other in Christian countries only a few hundred years ago.

Unfortunately, today's hegemon has been prepared to utilise that hatred for short term political gains, that has made the situation even more complicated and led to the spread of terrorism as the jihadi mindset cannot separate all the issues.

Hopefully, the majority may become sick of the slaughter (though it took hundreds of years for Catholic/Protestant Christians to wake up, to themselves) and decide that having a reasonably comfortable life is a better option.

1

One of the last Steam trains in China - from the UK Guardian

by fulltimestudent in

as hi-speed railways criss-cross* the country, its strange to find this vestige of an earlier, much poorer china.

built during the so-called 'great leap forward' in 1958, to facilitate the extraction of much needed coal from a remote coal mine, the railway gradually became a lifeline for this remote village in the wild mountain country of sichuan.

the village population (in those days) numbered thousands, but has now declined to about 1000. .

fulltimestudent

The view from one of the carriages, which lack windows and lighting.

steam train sichuan

1

One of the last Steam trains in China - from the UK Guardian

by fulltimestudent in

as hi-speed railways criss-cross* the country, its strange to find this vestige of an earlier, much poorer china.

built during the so-called 'great leap forward' in 1958, to facilitate the extraction of much needed coal from a remote coal mine, the railway gradually became a lifeline for this remote village in the wild mountain country of sichuan.

the village population (in those days) numbered thousands, but has now declined to about 1000. .

fulltimestudent

As hi-speed railways criss-cross* the country, its strange to find this vestige of an earlier, much poorer China. Built during the so-called 'Great Leap Forward' in 1958, to facilitate the extraction of much needed coal from a remote coal mine, the railway gradually became a lifeline for this remote village in the wild mountain country of Sichuan. The village population (in those days) numbered thousands, but has now declined to about 1000.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/10/china-steam-train-sichuan

* Starting 2007/8, the Chinese government has built 19,000 km of high speed railway linking and cross linking the major city areas of China. Lines are now snaking out from China and will shortly permit high speed rail travel to S.E.Asia and Europe.