Posts by fulltimestudent

20

My First Special Pioneer Assignment

by fulltimestudent in

my first special pioneer assignment.- part 1.. in australia, western civilization is a thin strip of land, that hugs the coast.

all the major cities are on the coast.

i grew up on the east coast of australia where the great dividing range, as its called, runs parallel to the coast, and limits the extension of cities like sydney and brisbane.

fulltimestudent

Phizzy:

Tell us how you felt, going back to Sydney. Did you feel that you had failed in some way ? or that the WT had really failed you, you certainly got no effective support from them. Did you feel a little bit of sadness at how things ahd turned out ?

Yes! I had certain regrets about leaving the town, and was acutely aware of what I could call my weaknesses.

I do not think I blamed the WTS. Its hard to be sure at this distance, but generally I feel I'm responsible for myself, and do not blame others for my failures. (e.g. Right now - as a student, I would not blame the university if I failed a subject. I think that sense of entitlement, as its called these days, is partly responsible for the failure of western civilisation).

The topic you've raised is complex, and it has wide ramifications. but maybe I could respond with this thought. John Bunyan's, The Pilgrim's Progress from This World to That Which Is to Come; Delivered under the Similitude of a Dream, was known to me, and the idea that the Christian life can be full of stumbles. But, if you stumble - you should just pick yourself up, dust yourself down and try again. While I faltered in that assignment, my faith (at the time, did not falter. I was able to keep Jesus as my example.

And I did try again? And, had a happier time in another assignment a little later.

20

My First Special Pioneer Assignment

by fulltimestudent in

my first special pioneer assignment.- part 1.. in australia, western civilization is a thin strip of land, that hugs the coast.

all the major cities are on the coast.

i grew up on the east coast of australia where the great dividing range, as its called, runs parallel to the coast, and limits the extension of cities like sydney and brisbane.

fulltimestudent

Xanthippe:

I understand though, I was an old style pioneer wanting to save lives,

Like you, I thought of my 'service' as a sincere sacrifice to Yahweh, and I appreciated that I was following in the footsteps of Jesus. Not sure where this idea comes from that Jesus was ignored? The prayer formula always addressed Jehovah, but in Jesus name.

In sacrificing a conventional life, I had in mind Matthew 6:19,20, counting 'heavenly' treasure as having greater value.

I tried to be considerate to those witnesses who had limitations, appreciating that we are all different.

These things were not issues, what eventually led to my departure, not only from the witnesses, but from Christian belief ws the increasing conviction that it was all based on mythology.

20

My First Special Pioneer Assignment

by fulltimestudent in

my first special pioneer assignment.- part 1.. in australia, western civilization is a thin strip of land, that hugs the coast.

all the major cities are on the coast.

i grew up on the east coast of australia where the great dividing range, as its called, runs parallel to the coast, and limits the extension of cities like sydney and brisbane.

fulltimestudent

Fade ToBlack:

On the plus side though fulltimestudent, you have to admit you learned how to take care of yourself under difficult circumstances.

Yup, agreed.

In reality, Australia was still a bit primitive in those years. The government took my father out of the army in 1944, and we were posted to a small country town. There was no electricity, my mother cooked on a fuel stove, we washed up in a tin dish, and heated bath water in a laundry copper (again wood heated) not many bitumen roads, not even connecting highways. No water supply (only tanks). Food was OK, there was a local abbatoir for meat, fishing were plentiful, and a diary farm on the edge of the village, which I had to walk to each afternoon for milk. Primitive, yes! But I remember those days with feelings of pleasure.

A bit older, I was interested in camping and bushwalking - so I could already accept some compromises with civilisation, grin!! I was in that town in the late 1950s.

One of my bible studies was with an old lady, living in what was the remnants of a 'happy valley' shanty town, where people made makeshift huts during the great depression of the 1930s. This old lady got comfortable there, in a hut made from chaff bags, that had been coated with a cement wash and painted. The floor was tamped down clay mixed with cow-shit. She lived there until she died.

I love beautiful things (paintings, etc) but can live without them (haha- cant afford them). If I get hungry for that side of my psyche, I get out my copy of, The Art of East Asia, and browse ... its as good as - (another smile) I appreciate the Chinese scholars who forsook official positions and went to live in a small temple on a mountain top, satisfied with their books and basic food. Might do that one day - smile.

32

Is the Watchtower Destroying All Thinking Skills of New Witness, Compare them to when you were in the Organization!

by RottenRiley in

many jws don't know the basic doctrines we all use to debate the clergy with.. .

jws don't know the bible, the know a few proof-texts but can't handle the bible like the witnesses of 1950s-1990s, what happened?.

the caliber of the new elders is horrible when compared with the elders of 1950s-1990s, they don't know how to use their bible, they are turning towards orgnazational minor details while ignoring the bible and gospel message.. .

fulltimestudent

What do you need thinking skills for? All you need is FAITH, doncha?

64

JW's Anti-Gay position puts them in the axis of ignorance

by scotoma in

jw
friends

darkest area is most anti-gay.

perhaps they need to focus on those areas since they seem to agree with them on this issue.

jehovah.

fulltimestudent

India also is 'dark!'

During the British occupation of India, the British government of India decreed a law code that criminalised men who had sex with men. It's know as section 377. (Notes 1 & 2)

A retired Australian High Court judge, (Michael Kirby) made representations to the Indian High Court judges that such a law had no place in a modern society. (which raises the question of whether India is a modern society, or still a pre-modern society?) In 2009, an Indian High court decision deleted section 377 and de-criminalised sex between men. There was an outcry from the dark religious forces that control Indian society, and in December 2013, the High court re-criminalised sex between men, on the basis that the clause should be removed by legislation. This is unlikely, as there are strong Hindu influences in the present government and the main opposition party (Bharatiya Janaata party) functions as an arm of Hindu religous interests.

In the near and medium term future, Indian society is likely to remain dark.

Note1: Have not checked on whether this section also penalises women who have sex with other women. However, even if it does not, women who move slightly outside the social limits are punished in many ways. There have been instances of gang-rapes of women suspected of being lesbian.

Note 2. Section 377 is also a problem in Singpore. The People's Action Party, the governing party in Singapore, recently refused to remove this law, which again had been inserted into the law code by the British. The principal opponents are Islamic leaders and (guess who?) the Christian churches, demonstrating again that Christianity is NOT a fit religion in modern, pluralist societies.

29

If the Watchtower Represents Jehovah, How Come They Don't Share In Public Forums Like St. Paul?

by RottenRiley in

other apostles of the bible were not afraid to engage in religious discussions (peter in the temple court yard), paul before festus, king agrippa and bernice, paul before the emperors of rome and his religious consorts or experts.. .

i don't see the watchtower's scholars of fame engaging with the world's religions or metaphysical discussions, why?

if fundamental christians, catholic and anglican church apologist are not afraid to debate topics with scientist, how come the people who claim to be "jehovah's only" don't share in the "thought of public ideas"?

fulltimestudent

Smiddy - I vaguely remember that debate.

And I remember Richard Kinnimonth (I think that's the spelling) quite well - can still visualise him. He was an old style orator, and long time witness, that certainly knew his bible. Quite well-known in Melbourne congregations, as he usually had a part on the program of every assembly, and more important (in those days) was the only witness (due to government prejudice) with a marriage licence.

But his marriage talks were feared by young witnesses, (grin) as he'd spend an hour examining the marriage of the bride to the lamb, and 5 minutes marrying the young couple standing in front of him.

And, this is another reason NOT to debate. Rationality is usually a victim to rabble rousing in public debates. Skilled orators can work the crowd emotionally.

20

My First Special Pioneer Assignment

by fulltimestudent in

my first special pioneer assignment.- part 1.. in australia, western civilization is a thin strip of land, that hugs the coast.

all the major cities are on the coast.

i grew up on the east coast of australia where the great dividing range, as its called, runs parallel to the coast, and limits the extension of cities like sydney and brisbane.

fulltimestudent

Part 2

The magazines, sitting on the table, haunted me for a long time. The Circuit servant came. I asked him what to do with them? "Place them, of course," he snapped.

I tried, but in a town of a few thousand, easier to say than do. My own magazine order ( Automatically,150 per month, and free (then) as a contribution to help support you) kept arriving - and the stack grew bigger. They kept haunting my Christian trained conscience! One day it snapped, and I determined to get rid of them.

I tried to bury them, but the ground was too hard. So I loaded them into a backpack and made 4 or 5 trips, to a creek a couple of miles out of town
(still miles, then), and in the nearly dry creek bed, found a place where the earth was softer, dug a hole and buried them. A few days later it rained, (the first for a few months). After the rain, I hurried to the river. The magazines had surfaced, hundreds of issues floated in the river - the
Watchtower covers looking reproachfully heavenward - in full view of the gaze of Jehovah god. I didn’t have the heart to attempt to collect them again, and left them floating. I heard later that the mysterious floating magazines had been the subject of some discussion in this small town.

I decided to move into the town, and found a room in a house owned by an old lady. The society sent me notification of a new partner. He came all the way from Perth WA, took one look at this little outback town, and caught a train straight back to Perth, claiming bad news from his family.

The society assigned another pioneer, this time from Adelaide. Q was made of sterner stuff. He even braved the early morning frost of winter (still icy around the puddles on the ground at midday).

But by now I was fading also. By this time I also could have married the town drunk, understanding more clearly how the previous SP girl had got into that situation.

I told Q I was going back to Sydney.

On my last day, I borrowed a bike and rode out to my first accommodation. Someone had told me that it was all that remained of an old house. The building I’d lived in had been the detached kitchen (they used to build them detached, in case they caught fire) of an old farm house. The main house itself had been pulled down for the quarry..

I stood on the edge of the quarry for a while. No thoughts of devoted service came to mind.

I rode back to town, got my bag of belongings and caught the train back to Sydney.

20

The reports of my apostasy have been greatly exaggerated

by sparrowdown in

since finding the meetings too morally repugnant to attend (coupla months now) i have.

been reaquainting myself with the joys of sat morn's at home.. imagine my disappointment to find the group study overseer and his wife pulling up out front.

the thought bubble over my head read "oh poo, poo and double poo!!".

fulltimestudent

I had a similar experience. After being disfellowshipped I heard that it was being spread in the congregation that I was - too intellectual!!!

A bit rich, considering that (in my experience) probably 50% of the witnesses do not really understand what they believe.

It was likely the same in the early Christian congregation. 1 Corinthians 1:27 makes the point that "God chose the foolish thats of the world," a bit of rationalisation that attempts to explain why most of the early Christians were a bit dumb.

4

May the undeserved kindness of The Lord Jesus Christ be with you!

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

nearly every letter written in the new testament concludes with a variation of that phrase.

since the gb is supposed to imitate the apostles why don't they conclude their letters by wishing the grace of jesus be upon us?

i think nearly every of the books written by peter paul and john concludes in this manner.

fulltimestudent

No! I used similar terminology (when I was a trueblue believer) and nothing was said.

But I agree, it's rare!

Basically because the WTS under Charlie Russell accepted the viewpoint of the Jerusalem Judeao/Jesus church. Which meant a clash with the religious outlook of the Christian church that eventually developed. That church seems to have disappeared after Jewish Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, razed to the ground and without inhabitatant (?)'. It was rebuilt by the Emperor Hadrian as a Roman colony named Aelia Capitolina, and populated with retired Roman soldierss.

Here's a 6th century representation of the Roman city. There was a main temple in the Roman city, but it was for the worship of the Roman god, Jupiter (Zeus), and the secondary Roman gods also had temples in the Roman Jerusalem

File:Madaba map.jpg

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Madaba_map.jpg

BTW, Geza Vermes, a respected Bible scholar believes that, from the NT examples available to us,

"Paul directed his prayers, thanksgivings and benedictions to God alone, and never to Christ. He continues, " ... Jesus Christ appears as the mediator through whom God is approached and not the addressee of the prayers."

Vermes,G. Christian Beginnings-From Nazareth to Nicaea, Ad 30-325. p.112,113.

Not that it matters! The Jesus/Yahweh combo God is as imaginery as the Roman Jupiter God that was worshipped in the Jerusalem temple after 135 CE.

20

My First Special Pioneer Assignment

by fulltimestudent in

my first special pioneer assignment.- part 1.. in australia, western civilization is a thin strip of land, that hugs the coast.

all the major cities are on the coast.

i grew up on the east coast of australia where the great dividing range, as its called, runs parallel to the coast, and limits the extension of cities like sydney and brisbane.

fulltimestudent

NAVYTOWN:

I would have put up with those primitive conditions for about two days.

That would be the logical thing to do, but siiigh!!! I saw myself as a trueblue Christian- I read the bible assidously, and accepted difficulties, particularly the physical/material problems, as tests of my faith.

I wanted to be like Jesus - 1 Peter 2:21 was always in my mind, as I attempted to be a footstep follower of Jesus, accepting as he did, a slave's postion. When faced with the physical difficulties I thought of (Pauls ???) words describing past servants of Yahweh:

" they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, while they were in want, in tribulation, under ill-treatment; and the world was not worthy of them. They wandered about in deserts and mountains and caves and dens of the earth." Hebrews 11:37,38 NWT

Crazy? Yes! But that's Christianity for you.