Not a sight you'd expect to see, anywhere - Hisao Mitani and his giant pet, an African tortoise, have become used to turning heads when they go on their walks in Tokyo. The 62-year-old funeral parlour owner says he has been taking his pet Bon-chan on daily walks for several years now.
fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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Walking along a Tokyo street, a man and his pet tortise
by fulltimestudent innot a sight you'd expect to see, anywhere - hisao mitani and his giant pet, an african tortoise, have become used to turning heads when they go on their walks in tokyo.
the 62-year-old funeral parlour owner says he has been taking his pet bon-chan on daily walks for several years now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nqnbfl279i.
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David Splane: The Catholic Church brought the Gospel into China!
by FusionTheism inquotes from the new david splane "1900 years" video:.
"the catholic church took the preaching work more seriously than the reformers... who brought the gospel into china?
... it was the catholic church.".
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fulltimestudent
FusionTheism: It definitely looks like "New Light" for the Governing Body to say that the Catholic Church was preaching the Gospel message and was obeying Jesus' Great Commission.
Before commenting, i should make this explanation. I started to study with the witnesses in the early 1950's. And I think the best description of the youthful me, is the word 'nerd.'
A Wikipedia entry describes a nerd as: " Nerd (adjective: nerdy) is a descriptive term, often used pejoratively, indicating that a person is overly intellectual, obsessive, or lacking social skills. They may spend inordinate amounts of time on unpopular, obscure, or non-mainstream activities, which are generally either highly technical or relating to topics of fiction or fantasy, to the exclusion of more mainstream activities." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd
So everyone can picture me, (then), typically spending my saturday nights, reading books in the NSW Public Library. My behaviour altered only slightly when I became a witness - I learned to 'work' a room and speak to people, but still read a lot to understand how things (people) worked.
One thing I did try very hard to understand was how the JW version of Yahweh regarded people who believed in Jesus? the Bible etc, during the centuries before Yahweh made his controversial decision to appoint Joe Rutherford's re-organised Bible bashers, as his "F&DS" with responsibility to care for his (Yahweh's) interests on earth. Around me then were many long-time witnesses, like Wallace Baxter (treasurer of the WTS/IBSA at the Sydney bethel), who had become a witness around 1918/1919 and many others. (And had been branch overseer in the Lithuanian branch when WW2 broke out.)
And when I dispute that Splane's comment is 'new light' it is because my understanding from all those old time witnesses, was that prior to 1918/1919 was that any person who loved the, 'Yahweh/Jesus combo god' and tried to serve them with a whole heart, was acceptable to Yahweh/Jesus. So among all the millions of humans - Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants etc, there were many who must have been approved by Yahweh/Jesus.
Usually in the past, the witnesses I knew avoided giving these 'faithful' people a denominational label. And indeed, in the 1930s, Judge Joey specifically attacked the Catholic church, in response to attempts by the church to prevent the house-to-house work of the witnesses.
So while Splane got his history all arse-up, I think his comments are not 'new light' just a slight adjustment to 'old light' (grin).
Now I know that logically, that concept does some terrible things to the idea of a 144,000 elite class, but logic has never been either a witness or a Christian strong point. So don't blame me for the inconsistency in witness beliefs.
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Revelations only book with specific warning about change.
by umbertoecho inrevelations seem to be the only book out of the supposed 66 books in the bible that has a specific warning about taking or adding one word to " this prophecy".
i am curious as to what others make of this.
i have looked at a few bibles, the last chapter and verses 18-19, state this warning.
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fulltimestudent
umbertoecho: It seems obvious that an author of say.......Revelations, would be warning against any change made to this book in order to protect it's contents. This book of prophecy is very different in language to just about any other book in the bible.
So I believe it would be to maintain the integrity of this prophecy.But surely, any writer wants to maintain the integrity of what they write, particularly if they believe they are writing something important.
Revelation can be described as being three things, first a letter, then prophecy and thirdly it has typical characteristics of Jewish apocalyptic literature. And, I suggest you have to examine the book in the framework of these genres.
Some other examples of apocalyptic literature in the Judeao-Christian tradition are, The Ascension of Isaiah, The Apocalypse of Peter and The Shepherd of Hermas.
All were in circulation in the first century when there was no New Testament. When the time came that the church wanted to certify that some documents were more important than others, The Shepherd of Hermas was very nearly included as scripture, whereas there was argument over Revelation and it was (some argue) not certified finally as 'scripture' until 419 CE. Even then some Asian churches (who were then the most important churches) rejected it.
It is the only biblical book for which John Calvin did not write a commentary, and Luther commented that it was "neither apostolic nor prophetic." To this day,the Eastern Orthodox church does not include it in readings for their Divine Liturgy.
umbertoecho: What do you think fulltimestudent? I do realize that questions can be used as a form of teaching.........but at this stage I am interested in opinions
What do I think? I'm inclined to the view that it was written at a time of persecution of the young church to persuade believers that God was in control and would make everything OK in the end. Vivid imagery and fantastic events were part of the propaganda techniques of the time.
The other interesting thing to me, is the very accurate description of the huge East-West trade market (i.e. The Silk Road) in Ch. 18. Precisely why the author attacks the trade is unclear. Possibly he was hostile toward the Jews who were involved in that trade and were possibly living (by this time) in many cities across Asia (Acts 2:5-11). Most of them were probably descended from the Jews who had not returned to Jerusalem after Cyrus (God's Christ) had given them permission to do so. The Babylonian Jews (after 70 CE) were becoming more important also in Judaism.
Another interesting point is that the holy city (New Jerusalem) of Revelation 21 is described in terms that are so similar to the Amitahba Buddha's "western paradise". Was there an influence from Afghanistan, then part of the Greek colonial Empire, and strongly Buddhist at that point? One could call on the name of Amitahba and he would save you into his western paradise.
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The Bible is NOT Error-Free
by FusionTheism infor many christians, the bible is viewed as the 100% error-free, perfect book straight from god, where every single word was carefully chosen by god for a reason.
but, usually, when you have a discussion on the topic, these christians will end up saying that only the original copies written directly from the hands of the prophets and apostles were error-free, and all manuscript copies since then are subject to copyist mistakes and other errors.. since zero original copies are in existence, how do we know the originals were error-free?
why should we think the originals should be error-free to begin with?
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fulltimestudent
FusionTheism: I view the Bible as containing the Gospel Message of salvation, and the teachings of Jesus, which are infallible,
Why do you think the gospel accounts are infallible?
These accounts were written some 30 + years after the events they purport to recall. Can you recall accurately the content of talks you heard 30 years ago? They are also filtered not just through the memory of the authors, but through their subsequent experiences in teaching. And, it is believed that some of the authors were not eye-witnesses of the events they describe.
The content of most of Jesus' teachings merely mirrored Jewish beliefs of that time (compare the gospels to the documents that make up the Dead Sea Scrolls). And then there is the problem of his expectations, clearly expecting the promised kingdom to come in his time. (Luke 21: 33)
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Fair warning-Image (avatar) change
by fulltimestudent intime for an image change - hence a new avatar..
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fulltimestudent
Time for an image change - hence a new avatar.
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Revelations only book with specific warning about change.
by umbertoecho inrevelations seem to be the only book out of the supposed 66 books in the bible that has a specific warning about taking or adding one word to " this prophecy".
i am curious as to what others make of this.
i have looked at a few bibles, the last chapter and verses 18-19, state this warning.
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fulltimestudent
umbertoechoan hour agoRevelations seem to be the only book out of the supposed 66 books in the bible that has a specific warning about taking or adding one word to " this prophecy".
Have you ever wondered why an author may feel it is neccessary to add those words to his imagined writings?
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are ministryideaz apostates?
by sneekyapostate inare ministry ideaz book binders apostates cos its plastered all over the net haha?.
ministryideaz.com - meeting & service supply.
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fulltimestudent
I've been out of this mob (jws) for many years, so I've got no idea who makes and supplies this stuff.
But it does look like stuff that used to be made and supplied by the Madzay family, who came from Cleveland in the USA. They came to prominence in WW2, by smuggling WT literature into Canada by speedboat, and became very close to Knorr and Franz.
Here in Australia, Dave Madzay was once Assistant Branch Overseer, but liked a drink or two, too often through the day, got picked up one night by the police for D.U.I. and was removed from his positions. Out of Bethel, he drank more and went out in a blaze of glory one night, when he mistakenly filled a kerosene heater with petrol. Bad mistake!!!!
Just did a search for madzay, cleveland - and whacko!!
the search link was described as:
Madzay Color Graphics - madzay.com
Products for Jehovah's Witnesses Calendars, Organizers, Book Coverslink: http://www.madzay.com/?gclid=CNOQt4-on8YCFRMDvAodoqEFOQ
Obviously, a younger, brighter (no funnies) generation is in control.
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Do we need a 'Head Office' any more
by fulltimestudent inlacking access to good scholarship, jehovah's witnesses and their watchtower society waste tens of millions of dollars (or, is it billions) building new head offices in the usa and other places - all at the very time that advances in it technologies, etc, are raising doubts about the wisdom of having a traditional head office.. reference: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/time-to-dismantle-the-canberra-head-office-20150619-ghrq9l.
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fulltimestudent
Lacking access to good scholarship, Jehovah's witnesses and their Watchtower Society waste tens of millions of dollars (or, is it billions) building new Head Offices in the USA and other places - all at the very time that advances in IT technologies, etc, are raising doubts about the wisdom of having a traditional Head Office.
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David Splane: The Catholic Church brought the Gospel into China!
by FusionTheism inquotes from the new david splane "1900 years" video:.
"the catholic church took the preaching work more seriously than the reformers... who brought the gospel into china?
... it was the catholic church.".
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fulltimestudent
I suspect that Splane was talking about the later missionary work of the Catholic order, the Society of Jesus (Jesuits), it was far more successful and was able to colonise (in a religious sense) Korea, which remains the most Christianised East Asian country with about 30% of the population claiming to be Christian.
Almost simultaneously with the Jesuit mission, Dominican Catholics were working in the south, from their base in the Philippines. You can still find Catholic churches in the south of China that date from that era. It was conflict between the Dominicans and Jesuits that eventually led to another ban on Christianity by the Qing Emperor Kangxi.
A Wikipedia entry notes:
Kangxi was also fond of the Jesuits' respectful and unobtrusive manner; they spoke the Chinese language well, and wore the silk robes of the elite.[15] In 1692, when Fr. Thomas Pereira requested tolerance for Christianity, Kangxi was willing to oblige, and issued the Edict of Toleration,[16] which recognized Catholicism, barred attacks on their churches, and legalized their missions and the practice of Christianity by the Chinese people.[17]
However, controversy arose over whether Chinese Christians could still take part in traditional Confucian ceremonies and ancestor worship, with the Jesuits arguing for tolerance and the Dominicans taking a hard-line against foreign "idolatry". The Dominican position won the support of Pope Clement XI, who in 1705 sent Charles-Thomas Maillard De Tournon as his representative to Kangxi, to communicate the ban on Chinese rites.[13][18] On 19 March 1715, Pope Clement XI issued the papal bull Ex illa die, which officially condemned Chinese rites.[13]
In response, Kangxi officially forbade Christian missions in China, as they were "causing trouble".[19]Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangxi_Emperor - under the sub-heading, Christianity
It can be argued that more advanced western astronomical technology(as in the above illustration) was the specific area that interested the Imperial court.
In other areas of technology, China was in advance of the west, as John Hobson demonstrates in his book, "The Eastern Origins of Western Civilisation," and the Jesuits channeled this technical information back to Europe.
An example, the French King Louis XIV, in 1685 sent six Jesuits to China, specifically to act as, what we would now call, 'commercial spies.' The French Academy of Science drew up a long list of topics for them to explore and send back as information about (including) scientific, military, agricultural and manufacturing subjects.
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David Splane: The Catholic Church brought the Gospel into China!
by FusionTheism inquotes from the new david splane "1900 years" video:.
"the catholic church took the preaching work more seriously than the reformers... who brought the gospel into china?
... it was the catholic church.".
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fulltimestudent
From Fusion Theists post:
"The Catholic Church took the preaching work more seriously than the Reformers... Who brought the Gospel into China? ... It was the Catholic Church."
If you could read the text on this stele, it would be obvious that David Splane's understanding of 'who did what in China,' is seriously mistaken.
The above stele, which is dated to 781 CE records some details of the previous 150 years of a certain church's history (which takes us back to the early 7th C.CE). The church referred to is NOT the Catholic Church, but a West Asian church, often called the Nestorian church, but likely more accurately, "The Church of the East."
There is sufficient evidence to indicate the the Church of the East was quite active. Here's another image:
which is often interpreted as a Palm Sunday celebration in a Church of the East. (Some scholars dispute that interpretation).
However, it may be that this form of Christianity did not endure, as during the Anti-Buddhist proscription, which also banned certain other religions, including the Church of the East, circa 845 CE, a monk reported to his patriarch (986 CE):
Christianity is extinct in China; the native Christians have perished in one way or another; the church has been destroyed and there is only one Christian left in the land.
- However, China is a big place with many different peoples, and that statement can also be disputed.
- But sadly, David Splane's understanding of the history of Christianity in China is in serious error
